Celebrating Our Imperfections as a Business Strategy

G: I was the classic kid who always did lemonade stands and always tried to, like, optimize and make the most. And I think at an early age I learned how important storytelling around businesses was. So I would do things where I would have, like, a fundraiser as a part of my lemonade stand. And I would see the effect of how much more traction that brought in and then I did.

When I was in high school, I did a T shirt company. And I live by this, that I think every great entrepreneur has a failed T shirt company. And then, yeah, I went off to college and my first, I would say, real push with a business that I tried was a configurable fidget ring and it was something that I just wanted. I was really excited about consumer products. I had always wanted to be an entrepreneur. So I basically started to learn basic industrial design.

I just wanted to teach myself. Toys seemed like an easier way to start. They weren't really complicated. And so I went through that process and it was a great education on what it takes to go from an idea to a prototype to production. I learned all about tooling. I learned about manufacturing. I learned about shipping and storage and all of that. And then it's funny because I ran a Kickstarter campaign for that. Completely failed.

I set a crazy goal, like $50,000 or something. And I think I raised like $1,200 from my friends and family. I didn't realize how important it, I just assumed that everyone was going to love this and it was going to blow up and somehow people were going to hear about it. And so that was definitely really hard and immediately, I lost a lot of interest in it, I thought I would never be able to do it.

And then I picked myself up and I started working on another product. I worked on a game called Backboards, with the whole intention was you kind of set it up near a TV and you play while you watch sports on tv, and so it makes sports a little bit more interactive. And I kind of went through that same process again, where I did the prototyping and I did some production, and I just got to learn. I would say the education around all of these little products I did was super helpful to understand what it took and then I kind of always did that.

I ended up going to USC, where I got my master's in entrepreneurship, and that really helped me get a better understanding of running a business and what it took to go from not just having a product, but then running a business and making profit. And so when I got into “but cute”, I had a much better understanding of what it was going to take, and I was able to really make more of a realistic effort into starting a business now.

H: That totally makes sense. And I think it's been incredibly helpful for you to have had those series of successive failures before you got the formal education and training in entrepreneurship, because you wouldn't have had the context to make the best use of what you learn. So now that we've heard a little bit about your entrepreneurial origin story, there's a deeper story about why you decided to focus on plush toys with a mental health component. Can we go there next?

G: Yeah, of course. Growing up, I was always a super anxious kid, and it's just something I always struggled with a lot, but I struggled with a lot of different things. You know, I had body image issues, and I was a very, like, chunky kid. And it was kind of this, like, running joke in my family, and it was something that always bothered me a little bit with things like that. And, yeah, I would say as I grew up, one of the things that always brought me comfort were things like my stuffed animals and my plush toys. And I always had a Curious George plush toy that was that. You know, I think every kid has that one thing that's with them from birth and mine was a Curious George.

And it's funny because I thought my whole life that I had one Curious George. And then as I got older, my parents were like, oh, you had, like, 15 of them. And every time you would, like, you know, something would happen, we'd get you a new one. But, yeah, it was just always something that brought me a lot of comfort. As I got older and as I learned more about toys, I learned about the actual scientific effects that comfort items and plush toys can have on people with anxiety and can act as these comfort items. And so that made me really interested in something to explore more. But I felt like there was just a bit of a gap where I wasn't really seeing myself represented in the plush toys.

They all felt just very, like, mass produced and generic, and everyone kind of had the same things. And as a toy designer, I thought it would be fun to work on some characters that were better representations of how I was feeling. And so the very first one I made was an anxious moon bunny. And I think putting that out there, I immediately felt a connection to it. But I also saw so many people's reaction to it, and they were like, oh, my gosh, she's so sweet, I just want to hold her and comfort her. And I think that was really where the idea of “but cute” came, where I was like, oh, I think that there's something to this, and I think people connect to this.

And there's a bigger conversation now around embracing our insecurities and embracing these things where when I was younger, having anxiety was just something we didn't really talk about versus, you know, my nephew, who's eight and he has ADD. He talks about it where it's his superpower. And I think that was really important for me to understand, like, reframing these insecurities as our superpowers and how big of an effect that can have on us. So that was kind of the origin. I started doing some other ones, and, yeah, it just led down this road, and I started putting them out more, and people just got really excited about these characters.

H: They're really cute. And I think at first I was like, I don't really know if I get the name of the company “but cute”. But then I realized, oh, this is quirky but cute, or it's chunky but cute, or it's crabby but cute. And I think it's a wonderful way of sort of capturing the fact that we're all complex beings. We're not just one thing. And our imperfection or the thing that we're insecure about, or as a person with ADHD, the thing that I tried so hard to mask and hide because I thought I needed to be normal, to fit in and be accepted. Now I'd say ADHD has become close to being my whole personality. I talk about all the time, and I encourage other people, whether it's bipolar, depression, anxiety, ADHD, dyslexia. It's not a limiting factor. It could actually be the gateway to unleashing your very best talents and strengths.

G: Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, I think for me, really leaning into having these conversations has had a huge effect on my life. I used to be very closed off about my anxiety and about my times that I was feeling really low. And I, I just have my own issues where I think growing up I was taught that it wasn't something to speak on and that everyone has their troubles and keep it to yourself. And as I've grown up and as I've really been open about it, I've noticed how much lighter the load on myself feels. And it feels that, you know, I think there really is something to name it, to tame it, and I think putting it out there and, and I've also heard where it's like when you share, you're splitting it in half and you're, you know, you're kind of like. Even just with my sisters, for example, there's someone that I always am able to talk to and tell them how I'm feeling. And the more I started to do that, the more I do it even more.

H: This is the beauty of your company because this is not just about cute plushies that you can hug and squeeze. It's when we identify with a part of us that we think is bad or wrong or makes us less than others. And you're the baby of six kids, so I'm sure you just got a shit ton of teasing even within your own family. But as a sensitive, creative human being, you're going to have more tendency to become anxious. And if you don't have a safe place to be anxious and to be okay with that anxiety and to hold space for it, it's going to become worse over time. So it makes complete sense.

I mean, I'm a former therapist, so it's going to make complete sense that if you have someone to share it with, you're going to feel better, but that you go farther than that. Because with, “but cute”, it's not just, hey, get, get these cute little toys and when you feel this, that or the other thing you can have a connection with this object. You connect people to each other through these objects. And also these, I don't even think of them as toys. They're really like an emotional support being.

I know it's not exclusive, but we are in a relationship, and I am not ashamed. It's we all need to connect. We all need to belong. We all need to know we're okay, and we can't do that in isolation. So you're building an entire business and brand around storytelling, around comfort, and around accepting the parts of us that are really okay to be part of us.

G: Yeah, absolutely. And it's interesting that you mentioned the community thing, because that's something that was unintentional at the beginning, and it's been something that has really excelled the brand. I have a discord where a lot of the fans of “but cute” are able to interact with each other, and we have a part in it called Meet Cute. And basically, when we have new members, they just introduce themselves. And it's been overwhelming because every single person who joins introduces themselves and says their name and anything they want, and then they say something that they're insecure about, completely unprompted.

And it's been this, like, amazing thing where they get a ton of support, and people are like, I went through that, and I feel this and if you want to talk direct message me. And I've seen this community grow where people are so supportive. And I think that that's something too, where generally, the more open I've been, I was always really afraid that people would look at it negatively and all I've ever really felt is support. And I would say people embrace me even more. And, you know, I had a TikTok that you saw that went and had a lot of views, and all of the comments were so overwhelmingly positive.

And I think part of it was just me being like, hey, I don't know what I'm doing, and I'm anxious. And I think so many people resonated with that, and it just is something that we all feel. And so I think that that's something that's important, is having these open conversations really does connect people, and it gives people the space to, I don't know, include each other and have these conversations. And I think that that's probably the most powerful thing that's come out of this so far.

H: It's gonna be well, maybe you've heard this said, Mikey, but entrepreneurship is the ultimate personal growth strategy. And I really agree, like you can even look back at the various iterations of different businesses you've had and what you've learned and how you've grown. But the through line, even in the short time that I've known about you and interacted with you, the through line is that you may be scared, you may be anxious, but you take action, you take risks, you follow your curiosity, and you're open to discovering the unexpected.

And I think that sort of openness to new experience, even though we don't know where it's going to take us, that's an unexpected strength from a person who struggled with anxiety, because most anxious people kind of retract and pull back and find their security in not taking risks, but you've gone the other way. And even taking the risk of selling your damn car to help fund. You're in LA, bro, like you need a car in LA.

G: I know. Yeah, it was crazy. I mean, I think it's a great point too, where, you know, I had always really, really struggled with overthinking and not taking action. And that was something that really, I would say, kept me down on a lot of ideas I had and things that I would be excited about. And I would sit there and I would overthink it until I talked myself out of it. And something I really worked on with this was not predicting the future. And every single week, I have a planner where I plan out the things I need to do.

And in big, bold letters at the top, I always write, don't predict the future one step at a time. Because I was always that person who was like, this is what's going to happen, which is going to lead to this, which is going to lead to that so inevitably, this is going to happen. And then I would be in my head and I was like, I'm just not even going to go. And with this, I've made a conscious effort to really take things one step at a time. I'm not perfect at it. I still spiral a bit, but doing the thing that's right in front of me and not overly predicting has really, really helped me be a man of action and take the steps that are necessary.

Because ultimately I'll do two or three things each day, and then the next day there's all these new problems or opportunities that I couldn't have predicted. And then that's been something where three months later, so much has been done. And I think that that's been a great lesson to learn, is really, really trying to focus on what's in front of me. And I'm not great at it, but it is something that I would say has really helped me make things happen.

H: As a person with ADHD, I strongly endorse the concept of being where you are. Because we do have a tendency to be up in our heads, either ruminating about the past, what it coulda, shoulda, or are trying to predict and control the future, a reality that we have no ability to influence. But, like, literally looking at the dirt under your feet, being present to the moment that you're in, the actual moment that you have any say so in this moment. And I think your ability to really start doing that, Mikey, has allowed you to go from well, you have experience with crowdfunding. You've done Kickstarter before.

Didn't work so well, as we've talked about, but you did it again. And I was even like, wow, I was surprised. Like, I think in four hours, you more than doubled your Kickstarter goal but that has just been the beginning. Now it's led to your understanding you know what, I think I want to do a friends and family round. And you're even having conversations with institutional investors, which really changes the business model in the future of “but cute”.

G: Yeah, yeah, it's been really interesting. When I first started “but cute”, I really started it as a, oh, this is going to be a fun side project and I'll have my job. At the time, I was working in business development full time, and so it was just something that I was excited about. And I started having this traction. Things were going really well and yeah, as I've done this Kickstarter and as I've been able to show traction, I've had interest from these institutional investors, and that's been a whirlwind. It's amazing to have these conversations and like you said, it really does open the future for a different direction.

And, you know, I think for us, we're very mission focused. You know, I have a very clear vision of what I want “but cute” to be. And I think that at the end of the day, we are a community of people that really love embracing our insecurities. And I think at the end of the day, it doesn't have to be just plush toys, but I think that's what's worked for us so far. And so when I talk to these investors, I think that's something they really like. They see a really big storytelling aspect of it. And while I am interested in going down that route, I also want to start with a friends and family round because I've had so much support from my friends and family where I would love to bring them in.

You know, I think that there's a real opportunity for this to be a great business. And they've done a lot for me. They've supported me through this, and so I'd love to give them the opportunity to buy into this brand before we go that route and before we dilute the equity and all of that. So it's been really interesting. It shifted that and I think that's another thing where it's like, I could have never predicted three weeks ago where I would be now. And so it's just taking those steps at a time and figuring it out, not overly predicting what's going to happen next and just kind of continuing down the road because it's been great so far.

G: It's actually really funny, our biggest customer is Gen Z and millennial women. And so, you know, we definitely have and kids love it. I think there is definitely an opportunity for this to be for kids where they enjoy it. And I think it's a fun way to open these conversations up. I think parents and teachers are excited about that opportunity to have these as conversation starters. But there is a huge market for adults, and I think that that's a big shift too, is number one. The shift in the toy market to adult buyers who buy for themselves is massive. It's like 25% of the entire industry now is over 18 buying for themselves.

And so that's a really big trend. And then I would also say comfort items in general are very important. I would say so many people have comfort items without even realizing whether it's just the TV blanket that they use or a pillow that they can snuggle with. And so I think giving it some personality, giving it some backstory has really resonated with some people. And at the end of the day, I also think that there's a huge shift in us all collectively embracing who we are and buying the things we like and not being ashamed of that.

And I think that that's something that I've seen being like, hey, I love plush toys, and I'm making plush toys, and I'm a 29 year man. And I think that that's kind of at first, people are like, wait, what are you doing? And I think that that's been a fun thing where people are just more willing to be like, hey, I made my money and I want to spend it how I like, and I like having these. And I think that that's been a cool shift where people really do want to buy fun, nice things. There's a lot of negativity in the world. So I think anything that can bring just a little bit of light into their day is a nice little shift.

H: You're reminding me of Labubu. Like, the Labubu is like, crazy. And it is this buyer, it is the Gen Z, millennial female, largely, who's blown this thing up. But are the “but cute” beings, I'm going to say beings. I happen to be Buddhist, so I just think Claude is an entity and my dogs are sentient beings. And I'm going to think of the “but cute” plushies as entities. Are they collectibles or is it different?

G: Yeah, I think that there's definitely a collectible aspect to it. I do pretty small production runs partly because I'm a small company. I'm a startup, so I'm not doing these massive, you know, Squishmallow might do 100,000 units in a production order, where I'm doing 500 units in a production order. So I think inherently they become a little bit collectible because they're each part of a drop and they're numbered. And so, you know, when you get one that it's like, oh, this is one of 500 from this version. So I think as we grow, that'll be a strategy that we can lean into a little bit, where I have a ton of characters. The idea is to release them and do these special versions. And so I think that'll be really exciting, and it'll be a fun way to do it. I would say there.

And we will do minis, and we'll do other versions as well. You know, people are always asking, like, will you do blind boxes like Labubu? So I think one of the cool things is we're young and we were at the beginning, and so we're not stuck into anything. I'm very open to what the customers want to see and what excites them. And, you know, that's another thing for the insecurities that we have or the imperfections. Every day I get asked by people like, oh, are you going to do this? And, you know, I'm legally blind, and I would love to have one with glasses or my little sister's an amputee.

And I would absolutely love an amputee, “but cute”. And, like, I'm open to anything, I think that's awesome. Like, I want to be bringing in what they want to see and what makes them happy and what helps them embrace that. So I think that that's what's really cool about “but cute” is that it's early on and we have the ability to shape this, like, with our earliest fans and I think that's really cool.

H: I'd love to know a little bit, Mikey, about your creative process, because as I was looking at the initial four and each of them combines different things that you wouldn't normally expect. It's sort of like fusion cuisine. And I'm like, oh, you know, that's a moon bunny, and that's a crab whose claws are croissants. And my ADHD creativity is like, oh, that's like, how did you and the rabbit with the cinnamon roll is like. And you said you've got, like, a hundred more like, what is your creative process for coming up with these ideas?

G: Yeah. So when I originally started doing plush toys, they were a little bit more simple. They were like a sushi or a mushroom and that was a great fun start. As I started to develop what makes a but cute. A “but cute”, which is basically two distinct things plus an insecurity. So, like you said, like an anxious moon bunny or a grumpy croissant crab. What I did was I basically made these massive lists of food, and I made massive lists of environmental things or random objects, and I just started kind of like, randomly combining them a little bit and this is something I used to do for brainstorming new product ideas period, is I've always been a big believer in constraints really helping our creative process.

And I think it's counterintuitive to a lot of people, like, oh, you know, the world is my oyster, I can come up with anything. But I think that becomes really limiting because you don't know where to start. And so I was always of the mind when I was trying to come up with new business ideas of putting constraints on it, saying, okay, let's, you know, art projects for Gen Z women who live in the US or something. And then it's like, oh, wow, I have, like, suddenly all these ideas that kind of go towards them. And so that was part of the idea with this was putting a little bit of constraints on that and giving myself lists. And so I would start randomly combining them. I always sketch a little bit too.

So I would just kind of, yeah, get something that I thought was interesting. Like, I'm like, oh, a croissant crab like, what would that even look like? I can't even imagine that. And so I would play with a few different ideas, and I would play with the structure of what that would look like and then, you know, something would spark. And sometimes I would do something and I'm like, I don't know what that is, and I would just throw it away and, you know, that's part of the process. And then sometimes I would be like, oh, this, like, moon bunny is really funny because of, like, the ears, and I can see it a little bit more so I'd spend some more time kind of on that.

And then as I get a character that I'm excited about and that I can see a vision for, I'll start to play with, like, the illustration beyond just the sketch. I'll do line art for it, and then I'll do, like, a fully colored version. And then usually I'll play with that a bit, get it to where I am excited about it, and then I'll send it off to my manufacturing partner and I'll have them create a sample. And one of the things I love about the partner that I ended up working with is that they do a great job at bringing the designs to life.

So we have, like, our cartoon versions of the characters that will live in the books and storytelling versions, but they do a really good job at some of the samples I've had. That was a fun process, was getting bad samples from people and being like, this is not what I'm looking for, I appreciate it, but that wasn't it. And, you know, so I think that's one thing I really love about who we work with is, like, they're able to bring that personality to life through these illustrations that I do.

H: Do you ever get frustrated by that? Like, I think a lot of entrepreneurs are visionaries and they can see the outcome that they want in their mind so clearly, and they attach to that outcome and they fall madly in love with that outcome. But then trying to articulate that to the person who's going to make it or who's going to bring it to life in some way, it's like, no, no, no, that's not it. Like, is the frustration of that ever hard for you or have you ever seen someone else execute your idea and change it in some way and you actually liked it better?

G: Yeah, it's definitely can be frustrating. I think there's a little bit to being detaching yourself from that perfection. And I think that that's, you know, part of what our mission is with “but cute” is embracing these imperfections. And is something that I've really tried to, like, lean into throughout this process of, like, this is imperfect and nothing, you know, it doesn't need to go perfect, and it's okay. And people, I think, especially being a young brand and being a young person doing this, you know, for example, like, I sent out an email this morning to our email list being like, hey, you haven't supported our Kickstarter yet. And I got all of these responses, number one, who are like, yes, I did back your Kickstarter. And so I had to go through these emails being like, I'm so sorry, that was not my intention. And then the other thing is, you know, you have these custom email templates that send out to their name, and it got all messed up, and so it's like in brackets.

H: Dear subscriber.

G: Yeah, exactly. And so I think that that's something that I could, like, in the past, I would have spiraled on and I would have been like, this is the end of the world. Where now it's like, this is part of the process, and that's who we are as a brand, and it's okay. And I'm gonna send out an email being like, hey, like, I totally know that you got something that said like, yeah, Dear Subscriber, basically in brackets and, you know, I'm still learning, and it's okay. And I think in general, people are really supportive.

And so I think that that's part of it is not predicting what it needs to be, not knowing exactly what it needs to be, giving designs and saying, hey, like, this is my vision for it. And then sometimes it is different and we'll go back and forth and we'll get it perfect. But, yeah, there's definitely times where it's like, oh, that's even better than I would have thought. You know, we have, like, our grumpy croissant crab has these holes in the top where you can, like, stick your fingers. At first I was like, I don't want that and everyone loves that.

H: It feels awesome. You're like, oh, I can just stick my finger and get this softness between my fingers, you know?

G: Yeah, yeah, exactly. So I think that that's a great example of, like, sometimes there's these, like, happy accidents that happen, and I don't know. And it is funny because I think it's something in the past that would have really. And it's still hard for me like, my initial instinct this morning when I got these emails sent out was like, oh, no, nightmare, dread.

H: It's all over.

G: It's all over. And then, you know, I give myself 30 seconds to be like, no like, that's who we are. And I think that that's been great about this brand as well. And I'm glad that I unintentionally built this brand a little bit around imperfection, because it gives me the ability to embrace that too and be like, that's who we are and we are imperfect, and this is going to be an imperfect process. And I think all of that has really kind of worked in my favor a little bit.

H: You have definitely been studying storytelling, my friend, because just hearing you talk and I've sent that email too, and it's so cringe. Although you realize, oh, they must be reading it, because they're opening it and they're reading it and they're clapping back so that's actually a good thing. But also how you're shaping the story around it is. That's really on brand, if you think about it, because I effed up and I'm learning and it's okay, and I don't hate myself and it's okay. I'm imperfect and I'm going to learn for this, and I move on. And I'm not going to guarantee you that I won't make another mistake, but I'm human. We're human. Let's be human together.

G: Yeah. I think the vision that I have in general is being the go to brand where people are able to embrace their insecurities and celebrate their imperfections. I'm very careful not to overly predict what that looks like. And is that just going to be plush toys? Is that going to be more storytelling? Who is there going to, you know, who our main customer is? All of that stuff I think is going to come. I really love our mission and I love the story around it and I've seen that connect with people more than anything. So I think as long as our brand is able to build around that, I know it's going to work out.