Designing a Membership Program That Fits Your Business and Clients with Lisa Princic

H: So Lisa, as I've told you, one of the first things that interested me in getting to know you better was the name of your podcast, Scaling Deep, because in the internet online marketing space that we both occupy, everybody's talking about scaling, but I've never heard anyone but you talk about scaling deep, so I'm sure I'm not the only curious human here that wants to know, what do you mean by that, what's that about?

G: Well, it's the name of my podcast and the name of my business, and I just on a whim, I think, decided to change everything over to that when I'd come up with this name for a program years ago. And it, because I think I'm like you, I very much have a desire for growth and I really feel like humans are designed to grow like we want to push ourselves. We want to see have bigger impact and we usually don't just go, I'm fine with that, and then step back and then do nothing right? So we have that desire, but then how do we do it in a way that that meets our values and feels like we're still connected if we wanna remain connected to people and to think deeply on how we do things and all that.

So to me, it's just a nice contrast to say that you can still, you know, satiate that part of you that wants to grow and evolve, but then also does it your way and like matches your own values and and priorities. So I think that's just where I came up with that and so, I have fun with it because it's always a pull between the two things right and I definitely face those realities all the time in my business, so, but I know that my way of doing things is to stay connected. I had someone who just joined my Scaling Deep Society recently and she just said, I'm just so glad there's a person behind this program because she's really relational and she wanted to know that she would have a relationship to the person who runs the program and that is how I think what my priority is too when I buy, and it's also what I wanna offer.

H: I love this so much, and I think we are speaking to a couple things that I know are important to both of us as business owners, which is not only to be self-employed, to do things our way, but to have a right size business that allows us to serve people using our unique gifts and abilities that's in alignment with our values. And delivers value that allows us to serve more people if that's what we wanna do, but not by giving them less. And I think that's the inner conflict that a lot of people have. And I think why this is gonna be a very valuable conversation because you are a membership expert and memberships are one of the options that business owners consider when they've reached capacity with one-on-one work or have chosen to bypass one-on-one work and go to group work and leveraged offers, scalable offers, the ability to serve multiple people with one of them. And I think a lot of people over the last few years you've seen it, I've seen it.

They go from one-on-one to group, to mastermind to membership. They're literally trying all the models but not every model works for every business, every audience, and every business owner. So I'm really looking forward to teasing this out because I think you can get it wrong while doing everything right, and that feels really shitty because you are the one that created it and spent the time and money and energy. So before we get into the particulars about who is a membership model for, how do you structure it, how do you price it, how do you promote it, like all those details. Can we talk for a few minutes about how you ended up having a membership model of your own because you could have gone in many different directions and I think have in the past.

G: Yeah. Well, the interesting thing is that people can be nervous about memberships and feel like they're going to get themselves into something that will be hard to keep up or that will feel like too much work or just all these reasons. And I was drawn to it because of the more flexibility it has and actually the more, sort of almost weighing it way than a higher ticket program where you have to really make sure that people are getting. They're all the same thing all the same time, at all the same pace. And I felt like that was more challenging actually when I was more drawn, well, I found myself more drawn to memberships because I felt like they are a bit more I versatile than a program that's like starts and finishes and really just revolves around more conversation. Or, for example, has so much training in it and maybe you have to have a team to help you assist in it. I just felt like it was easier, believe it or not, but I think it's so because I don't mind complexity. I don't mind looking at, well, what could this be?

And I pretty much had a membership mastermind when I first started my membership when it was, I think I called it the Scaling Deep Lounge, which is interesting cuz now I've kind of had a couple name changes for my new program and now it almost is like that again. But this was totally different, this was not for membership business owners, it was just for past clients. All we had offered was three calls a month, and the same group of people would join and then, you know, as my past clients would come in, a new one would come in and just continue that support and that connection to me in a different format and that was it. And once in a while I would do a little training for them, but there wasn't a whole bunch of material in there. It didn't have any content really and it was the easiest, simplest thing, but because people could join whenever people could show up or not show up, although they mostly did it, it was designed like a mastermind.

Because of the people who were in it were interested in showing up, but it was still really a membership in that they were just could show up or not show up. There wasn't this, oh, you have to be there because this is what you're, you know, only thing you're paying for. And it was, and people could join at any time so it wasn't a set group. So I think that, I just was comfortable with that concept of does it really have to look like a low ticket. You know, huge, huge volume program, or can it just be a access style program that has a lot of mentorship in it. So I think that for me, I was a little bit more nervous of offering something that promised an outcome that I couldn't promise that if someone didn't do the work and that's part of the sensitivity thing I think for people who want to do values-based work. I have no problem charging something high ticket.

If I feel like I can have an influence over their outcome, but if I can't get them that outcome and I'm not willing to say, be in their business every day cuz I'm not charging that amount, then it's hard to say, well, this is gonna be a $10,000 program.But it's still like a bit self-led because I'm selling it to mass amounts of people and, and then you know, you're gonna get people who are like, this was not worth it, I'm not happy with this. Like there will be that if you're overcharging and under and in a way, underdelivering without that sort of concierge care for people and in that case, I just don't wanna do that. Like, I don't wanna be on the other end of people saying like, I want my money back, or I'm not satisfied. I just don't think I have that tolerance for that so that's in a way that sort of shifted me towards a program that has, it's still not super low ticket, but it's self-led.

And even if people come in and they only use one part of it, they're still getting their value. Then I stand by that and it feels really good to have a program where you stand by your value, but you don't also have to be making sure that everyone has a connection to you all the time, because they might not want that. They might just want the materials and the course guidance inside and not necessarily show up on the calls, and some just might want the calls. So I think it's just more about, it's more flexible and it allows people to access what they need. So I was drawn to that as opposed to trying to make sure that everyone did exactly what they had to do to get the results. And yeah, I know that's a bit of long-winded answer, but of course that the place.

H: Well, you know, yeah but you are a deep thinker. I am a deep thinker. A lot of the people that are attracted to me are deep thinkers, and I think this is something that has a lot of nuance that I really, really appreciate because you said several really important things. I wanna make sure that we tease out and really, you know, juice over delivering feels crappy to you and doesn't necessarily mean that the recipients get more value. We had our little chat before we started recording about how robust my system is for following up with people that are scheduled to be a guest on this podcast. While other people, you don't even get a confirmation and you're left kind of wondering, is this even happening? And I think it's value is in the eyes of the recipient and in the ears and in the heart of the recipient.

You didn't need so many reminders, some people that's barely enough. And I loved what you said about, I think it really comes down to people's expectations. I recently recorded a solo episode for this podcast called, Who is Responsible for the Client Outcome, and it's one of the things that you were really talking about because no matter how much you charge, low ticket, high ticket, whatever those terms even mean, there are people that are gonna do the work and then some, there are gonna be people who aren't even gonna show up. I used to really, really believe people have to have skin in the game. You have to charge enough for them to not want to treat it you know, carelessly or casually, but there are people who will pay $27 for something and treat it like a fricking job, and they will go after it, like a beaver building a dam.

They will give it their all and they will get an incredible outcome and there are other people that'll drop two bills, two big ones, and not even remember that they signed up. So I think what I love about everything you've said about the membership model is what I refer to as choose your own adventure. When you start in a coaching program or a mastermind, you've been told this is what you're gonna get and most of what they're paying for is access to your brain and to a relationship with you, frankly. Now, if they are going to share that relationship with other people, there are gonna be people who are gonna think, well, I'm not getting as much time with Lisa. I'm not getting as much time with Diann, so I don't wanna pay as much.

There will be other people that will consider the fact that there are others in the program as a value add, but they have to choose their adventure. Are they there for the access to you? Are they there for the calls? Are they there for the content? Are they there for the community? Are they there for the accountability of, because I joined this membership, that means I'm taking this thing seriously. All of that, none of that, something much more mysterious that we haven't even identified. If you structure it well, different people can show up for different reasons and get their needs met even if their needs change over the course of the membership. And you really helped me understand that when you coached me on your podcast and I will make sure I link to that in the show notes. That is a really good conversation to listen to after you've listened to this one, because we take a deep dive into whether a membership makes sense for me and my business and if so, how would that look. So, I think you've definitely got my interest and attention on this because it's not just that you, you don't put as much into it. You probably put less into it and more in, into it in different ways so it's very flexible, I like that.

G: Yeah, like I think you do put let's see, do I think you put less or more into it? I think there's a little less time involved and in a membership than obviously a group program where there is a more of a commitment to start and stop date. I think it depends on the program, but I would say that if you're, but you're probably charging more for a group program, like you're probably, if you had fewer people in to a program, you're going to charge a bit more. So the expectations of this sort of, I would say the handholding or the care is higher and of course, in a membership, you're gonna get both. You're gonna get people who are, I just wanted to go through some of these materials and check this out and ask one question and it's worth it to them. And then you've got others who are going to show up on it to everything and really make this as their thing, because everyone's financial reality is different, and some people are very successful, but because they've got a very low ticket price point, they don't, aren't earning as much as you think.

So it just depends on what's going on for someone from the other parts of their life as well. So you don't know how people are going to evaluate the price point, but you need to know what you value the price point. Like you need to feel like it's okay for me to charge this and have someone show up a couple times because I think that value is there. Like, I think we need to feel comfortable with what we're selling and then we can resist the need to do well by overdelivering, sort of like try to fill in all these uncomfortable holes because we are feeling insecure about the value that we're offering. And I think that's the key is that if you create something that you feel like it really, if someone was to use it to like complete in its entirety. They should get a lot of value out of it and a lot of insight and even a little bit of care. And if someone is to just need a couple parts of it, they would still get a lot of value out of it.

And then you can go out there and then bring more people into it and feel confident and then not like try to like add more things that are really just your feeling, oh, nobody, you know, is asking for this, I better create something or some, you know, just that insecurity thing. I think that's the problem with a membership is that we can get in our own way by filling in spaces because there it is so not set right, there's no set. Here's what you're gonna get like every month I wing it. I literally wing my membership. I did a copy clinic yesterday because I decided that that's what everyone needed most help with, is figuring out how to write copy on their sales pages and I literally just decided that a couple weeks ago.

So I think, but that doesn't mean I'm over-delivering. I had a something else planned on retention and I thought not as many people are there yet, so I just switched the topic iInstead of adding more and more things, I'm just deciding what people need based on who's showing up. So I think that's where you know, the flexibility is fun, but the urge to just pack it all in and shove it at people at once is there for a lot of people and I think that's the part that's tricky. But it also is the beautiful part of being the guide, like the true guide where you are leading people with what they're learning and that it can be how the membership continues and how people can stay in it, you know, year after year.

H: So I can see how that flexibility would be both enticing and terrifying especially, I'm just thinking about what I talk about so often as the unholy trinity. Procrastination, perfectionism and people pleasing and most women I know, most female entrepreneurs, definitely people with ADHD definitely have those issues. So procrastination like, you wait till the last minute and then you're like, oh, shit, I need to throw some stuff into the membership. So you just gather together whatever you have, you know, and like all your leftovers and you make a meal out of it and you throw it in there and then, oh, it's not, I don't know, people aren't engaging with it cuz of course you can track that in your membership platform. Oh, they're not opening it, they're not engaging with it. Nobody's commenting, nobody, oh no, so you add more or you start tweaking, tweaking, tweaking, tweaking and then you're constantly projecting your own insecurity onto the value.

Because unless they're fangirling all over you on the regular, you have to decide that enough is enough and this is like, for most of us, that's like a lifelong journey. So I feel like we've gotten deep into the weeds, which I love so much. But let's do some of the basic stuff too, because there are people listening that are like, wait a second, I don't even know if I should even be thinking about a membership because they're making it sound very exciting. But I have impulsive people who will literally, while they're listening to this podcast, will be googling what's the best membership platform. So let's talk about the basics, like who should you even be doing this and what would be, knowing that there's a lot of flexibility, what would be a basic minimum viable structure. What's the price point, what's low ticket, what's high ticket and how the hell do you even get people to join this things, let's do some of those basics.

G: Okay, so basics are, you know, start with that, what outcome are you striving for people so that you can map out that content, that type of content that needs to be in there and like what would keep people longer term, but you're really starting out with what would that transformation look like if it was to be over a year rather than maybe jam packed into like a VIP day or something like that. Or a two to three month program that it's in a way you're just lengthening the journey for people from what would be a more intensive experience in a different format. So I would say that, you know, you can still look at pricing that would cover that period and then…

H: You're generally thinking of a year when you enroll people in a membership they typically pay by the month, but you want a year commitment is that right?

G: Well, it's not so much a year, yes. I mean, your commitment's great. I mean, I even have a six month start commitment because that's just kind of the price point that I wanted to sell at. Okay like that's what I decided, I thought I wanted to, and that's swear I also thought that the material inside is so good that I didn't want people to just like use it all and then leave after a month. And then I also wanted to track people who are more committed to the journey and not just look, you lose. So, yep as a coach or consultant or someone who has a professional service, you can decide to have minimum commitments and then they can stay as long as they want or free up. I mean, you can, a year is harder to sell people into, but I've seen people do that as well. But the idea is that you would still have to decide what's right for you. I don't want people coming in and for just a month like I really just don't cause I do get to know people. And so I think that, and it might change someday, but it doesn't make sense for now.

So I'd say that, you know, get a sense of what you think the value is like what is the transformation that people will achieve, and what is that worth. A year is a great point because if you think about a membership being something that isn't like a shorter program then a year is and they're kind of accessing it here and there. Or like, they might not even show up for a month, but then they'll come the next month and then over consume everything. You're just giving them that long-term flexibility to tap into, like they're tapping into the access. So I think that that's a great framework to think about well, how long would it take for somebody to get this result and then what do they need along the way. So you can have that kind of thought process around the value and the pricing. I'd say the value is sort and the content that's how I know I work with that and then figuring out your pillars of content.

So, are you more focused on community, is it really important for people to connect and hang out and talk like, is that the number one thing without you being theirs necessarily. Like not just on a call, but I mean like a real community forum mine is less so like that. I like it when people get to know each other or have a good conversation, but it's mostly happening on calls, so it's mentoring for me cuz there's that mentoring piece and then they hear other people talk, ask questions, and talk about their things so that's mentoring. And mentoring is my foundation, although there's education, which is the third pillar which I also have, because there's a lot of how-tos with the membership, but I have this course and it's created and it's in there, and then I have a load of other trainings that I create as I go, and I stick them in there at more advanced trainings for funnel building and all the things that it takes when you're growing a business and you're starting to scale, right?

Like it's not just having one-on-one sales conversations so you can have that in there as well. But some are just content, like some memberships, you're just giving content out. Some, you're just doing calls, start with your foundation, know that what you rest on in terms of what's your ability to get people a result. I know my ability to get results is through validation and strategy so that's where mentoring comes down to. That's great, that sounds amazing or you might wanna consider this, this might be where your weak point is. You know, like that to me is gold, right and I get that all the time from my mentors and I appreciate, so I appreciate that that makes all the difference and that's like the only thing really that all the stuff we can learn that's technical. So I think you just have to decide what that is that you can rest on to say, like, if you only showed up to the calls, would that be worth it? And that's how, or would you only just watch the course and that, would that be worth it?

So that gives you some idea and then just to jump into the tech guy thing, it's just like, what is the platform that's going to serve that main pillar? So do you have a B2C community that you're going to struggle to get people chatting on off of Facebook if it's all about them connecting and chatting daily, then maybe they that they need to be on there, or is that going to be a problem being on there. Or do you have robust course materials just make sure your platform is easy to use and clear and you love uploading stuff to it. You know, do you have mentoring which means you can be more flexible, cuz you're probably gonna use Zoom. So I think, you know, just keeping it simple. I mean, I just use free tools to start actually so I just kept it simple and I made that decision to not be on Facebook because I think once you're on it, it's really hard to move off of it so I never started that way and then I found my way to my current suite.

So it's a lot, but I mean, I have a WordPress site. I don't have a membership site. I have Zenler, which is a course platform. I mean, that's just a course platform that links, you know, and then I use Heartbeat, which is a really interesting community and it's done a good job of organizing events and all that on it. So that just makes my life easier and it's user-friendly and they have like threads and things like topics and stuff like that. So, that's how I chose it,it's not like a site, it's just a bunch of things that work together really well. So it's really, and I've used, you know, I don't use any of them for my payment processor, so I think that's where you just have to pick the easiest route.

H: One of the parts of our conversation, when you coached me on your podcast Scaling Deep that literally made my head explode a little, was that I had always been thinking that a membership is kind of like a beginner level thing and I don't work with a lot of beginners. I mean, when I'm working with someone one-on-one, I handpick my clients based on certain things I'm looking for, but they typically aren't beginners. So my thought, I had two misconceptions about memberships that you literally blew up during that call. One is, I thought you sell memberships to beginners when they all are very needy and they all have a lot of the same questions and you don't wanna be answering all the same questions over and over and over one-on-one, so you put 'em all in a membership, you answer it once for everybody.

And the other thing I thought was that the main value of a membership is community and I am not a community builder so I talked myself out. I talked myself into a membership, out of a membership, into a membership, out of a membership because I thought, I don't tend to work with a lot of beginners and I'm not very good at creating community. And what you helped me understand is that you can place the membership wherever you want in your product suite or your suite of services, or your ecosystem, or whatever you wanna call it, so that you could have the first step of working with you. Could be a membership and once you've been in the membership for six months or a year or whatever, then it would be more valuable for you to go into one-on-one or a mastermind or whatever. Or you could work with people one-on-one first to get them to the level they need to be, and then you could have a more advanced level.

That never occurred to me, and I also didn't realize that not everybody needs or wants community. A lot of people, they want the mentorship, they want the content, they want the accountability, but they're not necessarily looking for biz besties if they happen to find them cool beans, but that's not what they're looking for. So a heavily community oriented membership probably wouldn't even appeal to them, I didn't realize that. So, there are a lot of options like it could be mainly mentorship focused. It could be mainly content focused. It could be mainly community focused or there could be some of each of those attracting different people to different parts of the membership. And all of them could be interacting with the membership in a different way and feeling like they're getting their needs met and getting the value they came for that's transformational for me to realize that it uncomplicated things so much.

G: It's more flexible than we think and we can, I think having all three of those is ideal for like a flagship membership that will last for a long time. That you can basically just have one program if you want like I do that's not even really low ticket. I think that and buy low ticket, I mean under a hundred dollars B2B or higher ticket could be $200 or 150 or 500, right? Like you've got options and I think that.

H: And that's per month.

G: Yeah, if you wanted per month and if you had that then, and you had, you know, hundreds of people in there, all you could just really put your heart and soul into that program and make it amazing and that would be your one thing, which would be super fun. So you can have all three, I have all three now. I wouldn't say community like in terms of I don't post things like, tell me your favorite something you know, I'm not doing that engagement posting. But my work around that is that I really wanna get double the amount of members in there and that, because to me it still has room for that. It would just give it the right level of busyness that would then have other people feeding off of other people's questions and looping them back in and generating really interesting conversation.

Which would that to me, feels like my goal, but it's not that I need to build the community inside. I need to build the community like I need to bring it together. I don't necessarily need to be the one that does all the, cuz I do post things in there that are membership and business related, but I think that just simply bringing more people in there for the focus area, the quality, the all that is just going to create the vibrancy so you can add layers to it. And then I hopefully one day you've got all of it in there naturally so, yeah.

H: So you're saying you don't even have to start with the three pillars and, and if we have overcomplicated this your pillars are content, community, and mentorship.

G: Yeah, so it's kind of like that content, more of that education model, like are you, cuz some people who are, I just wanna send templates out to people or a package that they can reuse. Or like there's lower ticket email only, you get an email, you get a set of emails to use, or you get to, I will teach you how to use AI. Like I know some really interesting lower ticket memberships that are very functional to one purpose. And so, yes, they have other pillars, but you're probably not gonna get on a call and be able to ask questions. So it's serving a different purpose it's saving time for people and not solving their questions or their problems. It's sort of giving them like one specific problem, like, I need a certain level of content, or I need to learn how to do something. So I think it just, you know, you have to again, price it accordingly. If you have all three pillars, you're probably going to be a slightly higher ticket because mentorship is what ends up being still your time that no one else can replace necessarily, so that you have to price that in.

H: And you're helping me realize, I believe I told you in our pre-chat that I had been a member of several memberships last year.

G: Oh, right, yeah.

H: And there one of them still exists but several of them do not, and I'm realizing now that the issue was really the level of mentorship that they provided at the price point that they provided it and the number of people that they were able to attract to it, unsustainable, absolutely unsustainable. Like if you are actively mentoring people weekly calls and you've got 30 to 40 people in the membership and you're charging $37 or $47 a month you're eating a hole in your pocket where dollars should be. So, that's not sustainable and I understand better now and I think part of it also and I'd like us to finish with this question because I think a lot of people are interested, Lisa, in memberships, and for those of you who are ready to pull the trigger, this is the lady to help you get it going.

But I think a lot of people are thinking, well, my people are only gonna wanna spend the $37 or the $47, but I, as the business owner, want to be able to do deep work. I think you're gonna have to maybe choose a lane on that because I don't think you can really do deep work with, and when I say deep work, I'm talking about a lot of mentorship, a lot of calls, a lot of one-on-one attention and only charge that amount of money unless you put one person on a hot seat every call and everyone else is just an observer, no crosstalk, no questions.

G: Maybe you can do, do that like you don't have to do deep work with people all the time right? Like I did deep work, I did a copy clinic yesterday and it ended up being that two people showed up and I went through their sales pages and then someone else didn't show up, but she had submitted it. So three people got in a short period of time, less than an hour, got that deep work and then other people watch the recording. The ones who couldn't make it, who really are interested and get to see how I trained them. I the process of writing this more compelling copy and I, so it's deep, but it's just now people go back and watch the recordings all the time. So I think that yes, it's still not worth $37 though, because that's like custom support, but it's not one-on-one, it's one on many.

But the value of my showing up and teaching things in time and adding trainings is different. So it's still not a thousand dollars of value, but so it's in the low hundreds right? So I think that's where we just simply have to charge accordingly to what the value is and deliver on that value and. You're right, that's exactly why people shut down their memberships because they think it's a membership and therefore it has to be really low price, and it has nothing to do with that, it really doesn't. I mean, I don't join low ticket memberships because, I don't use them because I need to know who my trusted guides are and I would, I mean, I'm in a mastermind that's runs a bit like a membership and it's two grand a month, and that's my source for everything. Like there's a lot of support in there and I use it and that's how I roll and so don't underestimate your clients and how they function.

I mean, you're gonna draw in people who are looking for that level of support so that if you charge more, you're differentiating from all the other things and all your, you don't even have to call it a membership if you don't wanna, you don't have to. So, it really comes down to knowing your value and drawing people in to serve that value. Because if I was charging way less, a lot more people would not be showing up because they're not paying for it enough and then I would not even have the engagement or the success of helping people, which then fuels me to wanna get more people into it and keep doing my work.

H: That's such a good point, is sometimes you charge too little, you actually repel the people you most want to work with because they know that the people who are gonna be attracted to that low ticket offer are not the people that they want to be in community with in a membership or mastermind that isn't even about community, but it's about the quality of the container and who else is going to be sharing that space with you. So, exactly that, that's a mic drop moment and I think we just need to leave it at that because you have delivered the goods, you have landed the plane and it's a totally different way of thinking about memberships than I had heard before. The first conversation I ever had Lisa was, and I don't even remember who it was talking about, the membership is the infinitely scalable offer, because what you want people to do is sign up for it, whether they use it or not kind of like Netflix or that gym that you never go to and like, yeah I'm not interested in that. I'm not interested in creating that, I'm not interested in, and I know there are gyms that have done this, they sell the membership so low, they attract a gazillion people. If all of them showed up at once, the place would be so overrun that the health department would shut it down. So, that's actually their business model, is to charge so little that nobody actually comes and we're like, yeah,

G: People don't bother canceling.

H: No, they don't bother canceling because they think, well, maybe everybody else will go away and then it'll be more reasonable and you're like, no, that, yeah, that's not scaling deep folks and that's not the values based businesses that we are here to talk about and be part of.

G: Exactly.

H: So awesome friend. Thank you so much, that was really, really helpful.

G: You're welcome. That was, it was fun to talk about because I do believe our, I'll just say one last thing. Our world is changing and how we're accessing things and we are paying for access. We're not necessarily all buying courses that we have lifetime, you know, access to or often joining things that once we leave the program, just like this subscription, everything we don't get to keep the DVD anymore. We get streaming, so, I think it is the way the world is kind of moving and this online business community is moving in terms of how we deliver. So I think it's just a matter of time where more people are just thinking about it. The way that I was explaining it today, I think it's just, that's the direction we're heading in, so why not jump in.

H: And I think people are now voting with their dollars and they are no longer interested in making someone, they don't even like fabulously wealthy. They're interested in doing business with people they like and people who think like them, and people who value the same things they value and to me, that's the best kind of community you can possibly have. I trust you, you trust me. Let's do this thing together. I know who you are and I'm interested in being helped by someone who thinks the way you do, so I absolutely agree.

G: Well said.

H: Okay friend, that's a wrap.

G: All right.