Developing Confidence as a Business Owner

H: I'm so excited to be able to reconnect with you just a short time after we finished our work together, when everything that happened is still fresh in our minds. One of the things that I think has been most interesting and fulfilling for me is some of the unique challenges in our work as related to the fact that you showed up with not one business, not two businesses, but three businesses. And we found a way to help you make progress with all of them over our six months together, which I don't normally do. And those businesses have the added challenge of being family businesses. So let's start by talking a little bit about your three businesses and how they all fit together.

G: That sounds great. The primary business is a consulting company that is named after my husband because he is the talent and consultant Chef Kent Getzin Consulting. And through that business, we teach schools how to cook from scratch, how to procure from locally from farms or other producers, and teach basic cooking skills and he does that all around the country. And the second business was a salt product that we created together on our first Christmas. And then people loved it, so we just ended up packaging it and selling it and that business we're sort of putting on the back burner. We have one of our adult kids is interested in maybe taking it on, but we're not doing anything with it right now except for just selling off the remaining product. And then the third business is that I'm a counselor and so I have that separate work that I do.

H: I think most people would hear that thinking, wait a minute, you're a therapist in private practice. You have a product-based business in the food industry, and you have a consulting business that you and your husband own and run together. And by the way, you also have a family, right? And friends and hobbies and every once in a while get some sleep and relaxation and travel. That's a lot going on and yet you seem to blend it really, really well. And I don't know if you're good at compartmentalization or if you just approach each of those businesses from your sense of purpose and passion and just really wanting to serve people, but you seem to do it with a lot more grace than most people I know.

G: Well thank you. I don't know if I'm good at compartmentalization, but I think ADHD helps me with shifting my focus. Now, if I'm really hyper focused on something, I don't want to be interrupted, but I love being able to just fit things into the cracks of my day and get this task done and marked off my list and then move on to the next thing.

H: You're speaking to something that so many people don't think they can do, which is that, and we talked about this a lot, is that you have the ability to work with the nooks and crannies of time in your life. So many people say, I just need to make some changes to my schedule, make some changes to my business model, make some changes to the way I work with time and energy and focus so that I can like clear out a day, clear out a week, clear out a month. Because I have this big meaty project.

I want to create a course, I want podcast, I want to whatever it is, they have a big goal and they think the only way I can do that is to carve out a bunch of time and hyper focus. In my experience, even when people can carve out that kind of time, which is hard when you have three businesses and a family, even if you can, if your life has fewer moving parts, what most people will do is carve out that time, then resist, avoid and procrastinate through about 90% of them, 90% of that time, and then hyper focus through the home stretch, creating a lot of stress and cortisol for themselves.

But you are able to say, oh, a client just texted and said they're going to be late. I have 15 minutes I can knock off this and that, or oh, I had an unexpected hour that I didn't think I'd have. What can I fit in that time? And that's actually pretty unusual for folks with adhd. And it probably has something to do with the fact that you've got so many things going on that all have to get done that you figured out how to make it work.

G: Yeah, I think back to college and how the quarter that I did best in school was the quarter I had 20 credits and was working full time. Otherwise, you know, I had so much time I would wait until the last week and do all the assignments then and that never worked out well for me. And for the rest of you know, I'm in my mid-50s and I think that having undiagnosed ADHD was probably a key in developing some strategies that helped me get through life a little more easily than I otherwise would have.

H: You know, Cheryl Ann, I don't think we ever talked about this during our six-month coaching engagement, but what you just said is making me curious. Do you think it was advantageous for you in any way or beneficial for you in any way, or has been helpful to you that your diagnosis was delayed because it, in a way, forced you or invited you to create workarounds, even though you didn't know why you needed them.

G: That is such an interesting question, because I often think back to school and wonder, how could my life. How could my life have been different had I had a diagnosis and support, an accommodation then? And I think if I just have to answer off the top of my head, I would say I'm grateful for the way things unraveled.

H: I think you, that's one of your strengths, and it's a mindset thing, and it's a values thing, and it's simply how you choose to live your life. Any one of us, especially with ADHD struggles, we always have the option to pull the victim card. And I tell you, knowing a little bit about your history, you have had plenty of opportunities to do that and so have I. But just didn't find that to be skillful or valuable, but instead chose to say, okay, what can I learn from this? How can I grow through this? And how can I become a more patient, empathetic, and tolerant person simply by focusing on these other things?

And it's reminding me that one of the things I really appreciated about working with you is that even as an experienced therapist, you were still so open to trying things that maybe someone else might have thought, you know, I don't really know. Like, for example, affirmations right. Affirmations been around I don't know how many years, but I think I first heard about them probably in the 80s. You were not only open to it and receptive to it, but you really took it seriously and really made it work for you, because one of the goals that you had when we started out, and I'm going to use your words from the getting started questionnaire, you wanted to feel confident, effective, and fulfilled as the boss of our companies.

And so with that goal in mind, one of the tools that I offered you was to choose these very specific affirmations and practice thinking them, feeling your way through them, and even saying them out loud regularly. And you took me up on the offer and you have it. You want to talk about that a little bit?

G: Well, sure. I mean, I've taken a run at affirmations many times in my life, and I figured this time around, I better be coachable. So if you're telling me they're going to benefit me and help me become more confident, I'm going to take you at your word and do the work. And it really has made a difference for me. You even helped me choose some of them, which I think is really helpful because I needed. I needed a little help to get started.

H: I really, really appreciate that feedback. Everyone that I coach needs the same things, but they need them in different ways. And meaning we hire a coach for guidance, which includes mentorship, advice, coaching, but also support. Because no matter how much we want something, no matter how much we've committed to something and invested in something and are showing up to the best of our ability for something, we all have biases, blind spots and obstacles, as well as things that come up during the coaching engagement that were unexpected and may temporarily derail us. So having guidance, having support to face those challenges and overcome those challenges as they come up or manage them or work through them, and then accountability. And if you think back to where you were when we started together, how would you describe your need for each of those like, in what order? What would be the priority? Guidance, support or accountability? What, what order would you put?

G: I think guidance and then support and I don't really need accountability all that much. I tend to be pretty self accountable, but I have very supportive people in my life. My husband and business partner, I couldn't do business with anyone else I don't think he's been wonderful. But I don't know that I'm very good at accepting the support that I'm given by family and loved ones and it's part of being coachable. I was present for your support and it actually like really pierced my heart sometimes how nurturing you were to me and strong of a model.

Several of the tools that you provided to me were done in a way that I felt like, well, I have to just go back and say, as a music teacher, as a preschool teacher, I believed that students grow and learn through love more so than the instruction they're given or any pedagogy. And I just felt that nurturing from you and it was transformational.

H: It really speaks to something that both you and I know and probably have repeated so many times. And that is finding the right person to work with is not only, you know, you like them, they have a good reputation, maybe they have a good platform, maybe you've heard other people have had good experiences. But fundamentally, foundationally, it comes down to goodness of fit, just like it does for therapy. And a lot of people will say, well, I'm going to hire the person who has the biggest name or biggest reputation or I'm going to hire the person that helped my friend, you know, reach their goals or I'm going to work with this person because I've heard good things about them.

But sometimes when we choose that way, we are overlooking something even more important, which is how we feel in that person's presence. And I don't know about you, but as a person who's neurodivergent, who had to mask for most of my life to be able to fit in, blend in and be tolerated by others, maybe not even liked, but tolerated, I really disowned myself in so many ways. And I probably could not have told you years ago, is this person a good fit for me? Because I was so focused on being acceptable to others that I wasn't even asking myself how I felt about them.

G: That's very relatable.

H: Yeah. When you told me that you were working with your husband as the business partner, and yet I went to the website and it is very much focused on him. And we began to use the terminology, he's the talent and you're the boss. And I think I even used an example with you a good friend of mine, John Sovec, used to work for Disney. And for the last number of years he has been a psychotherapist, author, speaker and coach who helps families with the gay teen with the coming out process and beyond. And in his time at Disney, he told me that he learned the terms front of house and back of house. And we started using that terminology because Kent is like front of house and that.

And for Disney folks listening, those are the people who represent the brand in a very outward way. Meanwhile, you are back of house, quietly working behind the scenes and sometimes not so quietly working behind the scenes. I'd love to talk a little bit about the challenges of that in terms of finding your voice, recognizing and valuing your contribution, and just really feeling confident about being the boss when probably a lot of people who interact with the business didn't know you were the boss.

G: I think it had to come through building confidence so that I could let go of my ego because I'm also a performer. So I have this long history of music and theater performance and I don't really go backstage very easily. So to have this partner who is so out front, I felt marginalized a lot of the time and it wasn't his fault that I was marginalized. He was doing his job, I was doing my job. But then I would be marginalized with others and perceived as not even being part of the business and I just had to let that go. And I think it was through doing the affirmations and asking the powerful questions that I was able to say, I don't really care what people think about my involvement in the business. I know what's important, and I know what we're building together.

H: And you have a really successful marriage that you both work very hard on being successful with.

G: That is true.

H: And so and I think it's a, we all, I wouldn't say all, most of us experience rejection, sensitivity. And I think one of the things that was so interesting for me about supporting you and developing your confidence as the boss is that and I think it was probably several months into our work together that I even found out about your history as a performer. But knowing that you are a powerful person in your own right, you know, less than 10% of people in this country have a master's degree, and you're one of them.

G: I didn't know that.

H: Yeah, I think it's 9% and so you're already like, top tier in terms of your academic achievement. The number of people who would like to own a business but never will. And you have not one, but three. But also being able to have all that background experience as a performer and intentionally choosing to take a different role because it is what the business needs, like, that just takes a level of maturity. And I really wonder, you know, how younger women are able to do this for me. And we had some conversations about, you know, what happens in a woman's life at 50 plus, how just certain things seem to come online in our personality that we were striving to develop earlier and unsuccessfully.

You're able to just maybe put your ego in check a little bit easier and recognize there are three parties in a business and in your case, four. There's what the boss of the business needs, there's what the business needs, and there's what the customers or clients of the business needs. And because you are such an empathic person who is not necessarily sacrificing herself, but really always making decisions that take what's going on with other people into account that's really one of your strengths. And I think one of the main reasons why you are qualified to be the boss of the business. But choosing to release some of the ego when people would routinely discount or just be completely unaware of your role. I would have been.

G: And you mentioned rejection sensitivity, and it makes me laugh because being in this work as a therapist and teaching about rejection sensitivity, and yet I can't apply these things to myself. I need to hear it objectively. So I didn't even realize that this was coming from rejection sensitivity.

H: Well, part of that also is related to the fact that you had a later in life diagnosis and probably didn't even have the language for rejection sensitivity. I mean, now it seems like everybody's talking about rejection sensitivity and RSD, and there's still a lot of myth and misunderstanding about it. But, you know, everybody knows they don't like being criticized. Obviously, nobody likes being rejected. But understanding that our particular sensitivity to rejection and how we can really become quite obsessed with it. And avoid doing things because we don't want to experience it, I think it's been really helpful to me to understand that's not a weakness or an indulgence. It is quite literally my operating system. And I just need to learn how to work with that and forgive myself for it instead of trying to shame myself out of it.

Can we talk a little bit about when you were sort of going through the decisions that you had to make about the salt company. And I know how meaningful it's been for you. I know how it's really been something that's touched not only your customers, but multiple family members. And yet there really wasn't enough of you or Kent to go around to really give it everything it needed to fulfill its potential. And I thought the way you handled that, knowing how different family members felt, was really extraordinary and really showed what a good leader you truly are.

G: Oh, well, thank you. Yeah, for the last couple of years, at our annual meeting, I had it listed as an issue. We need to either step up what we're doing with our marketing or we need to let this go. And I just didn't have it in me to let it go until this year. So once again, we do our end of the year meeting and I say we've got to step up or let it go. And we plan out marketing videos and things that we're going to do, and then nothing happens.

We don't do any of it, not a single thing. And so here we are halfway through the year, and the business is floundering. I feel like I'm losing control of it. And if we lose control of a food product, that's pretty dangerous, I don't want that happening. So I've got lots of layers of why the business either needs to change and grow or go away. And I needed to talk to certain people first before we could let anyone know.

So first I had to get my husband on board I had to make sure he was going to be okay with it and that took a few weeks. And then we notified family and then employees, and then we were ready to pull the plug. And pulling the plug is one thing it's still going, but it's going to be phased out completely before the end of the year.

H: I think this is one of the hardest things for business owners to deal with. And something that I don't personally think is talked about nearly enough is when we put time, energy, focus, attention, effort, dollars, opportunity cost, we get other people involved. And as a neurodivergent person, we fall in love with an idea that we have for something. And you guys didn't just decide, hey, why don't we create this thing? It was literally how I think you do many, many things in response to needs of others that you choose to meet right?

I think this is something that you are really, really good at, and it makes sense for a therapist in particular, but I think it also serves you really well in your other businesses, is that you see a need and then you come up with a creative way to fulfill it. And imagining how you're going to do that and envisioning how you're going to do that and planning how you're going to do that energizes you and fills you with both passion and purpose for the project, and you run with it and it really, genuinely brings you joy to meet other people's needs and yes, that business was just.

There just wasn't enough of the two of you to go around to really pivot. And yet being able to look at it objectively and to not get caught up in the sunk cost fallacy. We can't let it go, we've put so much into it. Especially if you feel like we never gave it what it needed to thrive so how can we walk away from it now? It's one thing if you've done everything you can to make it successful and it's like, this thing is just a dog and it needs to go.

G: Yeah.

H: But when you feel like we fell in love with this vision and we fell in love with the potential, but we never really did what we needed to do to make it a success. The level of, like, I don't know if guilt is the right word, but just missed opportunity, regret, disappointment in yourself and just thinking, well, maybe later, maybe later. And the fact that you were able to very confidently know for yourself what needed to happen, take ownership of that decision, and then lead the rest of the family members and employees through that decision. That was when, for me, one of the moments during our time together that I literally saw you step into, and I hate this expression, but the next version of yourself, it was like inflection point.

You were so certain, and even though you knew there were obstacles ahead of you in terms of communicating it to everyone else that all the other stakeholders and getting them on board, you were unequivocal about it. You knew that was the right decision. I was like, you are a leader, and my role is really just to hold up the mirror that can reflect back to you what's already there, but you aren't always able to see. You know, sometimes our mirror's a little smudged or not getting enough light or. But I think you saw it in yourself in that moment, too.

G: I did, because I also saw that I was letting people down. My family is still disappointed the kids are scrambling. Everybody is saying, how do we get more in our community. And, well, I guess it's a theater term to say, leave them wanting more, that it's a good time to go out. But I still did struggle a lot with that rhe feeling I was disappointing people, and that's really uncomfortable.

H: I don't think that's ever going to be comfortable for you, Cheryl Ann. I think it's one of the ways. It's one of the reasons why I call my framework the Boss Up Breakthrough. Because to be able to boss up is not to say, I'm always going to make the right decisions or I'm always going to do the right thing, or I'm always going to do the right. The thing that makes us the most money or whatever, it's sometimes doing the right thing is the hardest thing you'll ever do.

And because you see what's necessary much sooner than others do, and some of them never will just because of their own attachments to things, and you are still able to lead them and yourself through it, even with the discomfort of knowing they're disappointed. Because you were disappointed, too. It's not like you were, like you know, you weren't not like, okay, I'm, you know, I'm fed up with this thing we just need to like or get off the pot. You really didn't want to let it go either.

G: No, there was grief involved. And the affirmation that you helped me write, I embrace discomfort in service to growth. I say that all day long, every day, and I think it's been really helpful and in finding confidence and being able to courageously head into these things that have felt daunting.

H: You made really good use of the tools. You know, I always tell people there's a variety of different things you have available to you during our work together. For some people, just coming to the coaching calls and having powerful conversations is all they have the bandwidth for and all they want and all they think they need. Other people are able and willing to take advantage of the Voxer access between calls to spitball things, brainstorm things, use it for an accountability check in.

You and I kind of went back and forth on choosing the affirmations until they really felt, yeah, that's right and just accountability. And also the worksheets, because you mentioned to me that you not only use the affirmations, you are still using the affirmations. You even have them posted along with the powerful questions in a place where they're still there, in a way, coaching you, even though I no longer am.

G: That's true. They're posted right here in my office. I have them in my bathroom where I get ready each morning. So it's still a very important part of my daily life.

H: Do you remember one of the powerful questions that means the most to you and that you still use?

G: The two that I use the most are, how can I make this more fun? And how do I want to feel?

H: Mmm. You know, a lot of people have a hard time acknowledging that they don't really want to do something unless it's fun. You know, I mean, you're a professional, and you might think, well, I should just want to do this because it's the right thing to do, it's a professional thing to do. And I'm a grown up, after all, and I'm the boss and it's like, you know what? You have adhd and if it's not fun, you can't bully yourself, bribe yourself, or in any way trick yourself into doing it. But you're clever, you're creative, you're a problem solver. So if you give your brain a different question instead of why can't I figure this shit out? Or what the hell is the matter with me? Or why don't I just get over it already. Asking yourself, how can I make this more fun? Is like, mmm, curiosity mode unlocked.

G: Uh-huh and it gets me out of creating adrenaline and cortisol to finish a project. It gives me dopamine instead.

H: Oh, wow we gotta get our hands on as much of that joy juice. But I'll tell you, one of the other things that you did that gives me so much satisfaction and fulfillment knowing this was an outcome, was the incredible book that you and your husband are writing and have been planning to write for. I think it's like close to a decade or maybe longer.

G: It's been longer.

H: But as soon as you told me about it, I was like, oh, this has to happen. This is a must. Because it's truly a transformational book, that finishing it will change your lives and reading it will change the lives of others. And you were able to not only commit to it, but carve out, dedicate, and protect time. And how far are you in the process of writing the book at this point?

G: I'm aiming for 80,000 words, so I'm about a third of the way through that now.

H: Do you have a specific date or time or goal in mind when you want to?

G: My goal right now is to hit 40,000 words by the end of the day this month. I'm not sure if I'm going to quite meet it, but I'm doing what I can. And I have a dedicated at least one day each week where I spend many hours working on the book. And if it could be completed by the end of this year, I'll be happy.

H: But you've already gone too far to stop or go back.

G: True. Yeah, speaking of the sunk cost fallacy but it's really.

H: No, no, no, I'm not talking about sunk cost fallacy. What I'm talking about in this case, because this book has been on your heart and you've done so much of the work behind the scenes to prepare to write it that, you know, when you first told me about it. I thought, this is an inevitability how can we make it a reality now? Because it could have been another 10 years. It could have been, oh, I'll do it when I retire and it would have still been wonderful then. But it was one of the things that you really wanted because you knew how much it would build your confidence and you knew how much it would give you something that you really, really wanted, which is a genuine voice.

In a way, a book is almost like being a performer because it's your unique communication to the world and something completely separate from everything else that you're doing. And you are not only using the big chunks of time, but you're also using the nooks and crannies to further it along. Does it feel to you like finishing it is an inevitability, even if it's not exactly when you intend to?

G: Absolutely. There's no way it's not going to get done.

H: That makes me so very happy. You've got the momentum, and the way I said it, it's like there's no turning back now. But it's not just because of the time that you've put in it, because you put so much time into it before you even officially sat down to write it. Thinking time, talking time, brainstorming time, outlining time. You've already put a lot into it, but now you're in momentum. You are in momentum, and you are in the kind of momentum that you can see the end coming towards you, even if you're not leaps and bounds.

And I think, you know, maybe it is true that having a delayed diagnosis, not for everyone, Cheryl Ann, but for you, gave you the opportunity to figure out how to make things work for you, even if you didn't quite understand why you couldn't do it the way everyone else did. But you've created ways to work around obstacles, to motivate yourself, to keep yourself going. And now that you've reached this point with the book, it's real for you. It's no longer an idea, a dream, a vision, a goal, a wish like, you have the pages, you have the receipt.

G: That is true, yes. And it reminds me of how it is to be ADHD and to dedicate several hours to a project that I get to look forward to doing every Friday. And then I do find myself procrastinating or I do find myself wanting to edit instead of just pulling words up from the well the way I've been advised to do it. So it has been interesting to be face to face with the challenges of ADHD that I don't really experience as much anymore.

H: Can I ask you one more question?

G: Sure. Yes.

H: During the time we spent together. You probably experienced a lot of things that you intended and looked forward to and had the desire of. Were there any surprises that you experienced during those six months?

G: Two surprises and they're related. The first one would be, I think I thought it was impossible for me to ever have real confidence. And the fact that I feel confident now is still blows my mind. And then also to be able to build a relationship with someone that I was really nervous about getting started with you. I can be so shy and it was just surprising to me that you made this so easy for me to build this rapport. You built an amazing rapport. I'm not articulating that very.

H: No, you are.

G: I think it's a little too close to my heart right now.

H: Oh, my goodness. I'm getting all choked up because. And actually, as we're finishing, I should say, we had the opportunity to do something really special.

G: Yes.

H: During our time together, I decided to go to a conference, Neurodiversion conference in Austin, Texas and I told you about it, and you went too. And we actually got to hang out and have meals and spend time like, personally getting to know each other at that conference. I haven't been able to experience that with another client before. And I absolutely know how much that enhanced just the depth of the connection and how powerful it became and how you were able to utilize that to really grow the confidence that you really desired. And I cannot tell you how much that really fulfills and satisfies and pleases me.

G: Well, thank you so much.