Unpacking Marketing Strategy with Claudia Schalkx: Standing Out With Your Secret Sauce

 H: So today I have the pleasure of introducing you to someone who's very special to me. She is my consultant and coach, my trusted advisor, and someone who's become a very good friend over the last year. Claudia is joining us today from the Netherlands, and we are going to talk about standing out with your marketing. So welcome Claudia, let's get right to.

G: Thank you. Thank you for inviting me and for this topic. I love this topic, so hit it.

H: Okay, so what we discussed is, you know, there's a lot of noise in the marketing space. A lot of people are giving advice and a lot of it is either redundant, contradictory, or simply pointless. And I think one of the things that we both really agree on, and one of the reasons why I chose to hire you and work with you is because you do not teach tips and tricks and tactics, you teach strategy. And so what we're gonna unpack today is there's actually three levels of strategy when it comes to your marketing. There is strategy from the marketing perspective, strategy from the business owner perspective and strategy from the client perspective, where would you like to start?

G: Oh with my topic, marketing. So standing out is an interesting thing because it's very individual. I think the way you stand out for you, you have to own it, you have to be comfortable standing out and you should find a way that truly, that's truly yours that you know, that you can identify with. Besides that, how you get that, you need to unpack your uniqueness. You need to unpack your, the way you stand out and there are some elements in there like your own personality, what you like to do, what you don't like to do, what you're comfortable with, what you're not comfortable with. But if you boil it down to pure marketing, I would say that you stand out through your marketing message, which is the answer to what do you do in a way that the conversation keeps going, but also understanding who your ideal client is because marketing revolves around your client.

And the most, the thing that really gets your standing out on asteroids is having a signature system. And the signature system is something that I've seen a lot of people using as their curriculum for their program or their service, but I think a signature system has a deeper layer. It's actually how you take your clients from A to B, but instead of focusing on the process, which is what happens when you use it for curriculum or for explaining the contents of your course, you focus on the deliverables and the milestones and the transformation along the process. So when you focus your signature system from that perspective, you really unpack your uniqueness because it’s true, there are many people doing the same thing you and I do, you know?

Sometimes your thing and my thing cross overlap and cross over. But when you translate what you do into signature system, your uniqueness really comes out. And that you can use as a sales tool and also as a guidance to manage your coaching sessions with your clients, so that's the signature system. The ideal client, I would say it's important because in marketing, everything revolves around your client. If you don't understand your client, and by understanding I mean really getting into the head of your client, knowing them better than they know themselves, then you can create content. You can create products and services that really appeal to your client, and when your client resonates with what you put out there, you stand out. So instead of yelling, Hey, hello, I am here, you let your marketing, your best marketing assets do it for you.

H: Now I have a couple of deeper level questions about what you've already shared, Claudia, and that is this, I hear from so many women that they don't know how to stand out, that there isn't a way to stand out, they're in a saturated market, tons of people do what they do. They don't do anything any different. Let's say someone's a graphic designer or what, whatever it could be that they really don't know how to stand out and when they hear stand out, a couple things happen. One, they think, oh no, please don't tell me that I have to start dancing and pointing on TikTok. And they also say I'm an introvert, I feel very uncomfortable when the focus of attention is on me, and yet they're self-employed. And so I think we need to talk about the nuance of what does it actually mean to stand out, and how can people that are more introverted, more shy, stand out in a way that will be effective for attracting their perfect fit clients without making them do anything that just doesn't feel like them.

G: True, then again, standing out is something very personal. You have to find a way of standing out that really resonates with you because one thing that allows you to have success in marketing is being consistent. So if you are looking for ways to attract the attention of your clients in ways that are not naturally yours. First, clients can smell BS from miles ahead, so even if you jump on the table and do the best step in the world, if it's not you, your clients won't come to you. But when it's not you, at some point you throw the towel in the ring and you don't show up for your business. So you need to leverage on your strength when you are marketing your business, leveraging on your strengths will allow you to be consistent. So, if you're an introvert, creating a marketing strategy that is based on, I dunno, speaking gigs or standing in, you know, in front of a huge public, that's going to drain your energy. And maybe you can do it once, you can do it twice, but at some point you will have great resistance to it and you won't show up for your business and that's when inconsistency starts to show its ugly face.

So when you identify what are your natural strengths and you bring them into your marketing, then standing out and showing up for your business become practically a piece of cake. So I have a quiz on my website, seven questions, very easy questions that help you identify what are your natural marketing strengths, and give you also strategies that you can apply to your business, but also talk to friends of yours, you know, and ask them what are natural things in you, and what are the things that you do that have appealed to them and above all, talk to your clients. Talk to the clients with whom you have great progress and ask them what makes you you from their point of view and you can use their words and you can use their feedback into identifying what is your style and what can help you standing out.

So for instance, for a long time I positioned myself as the queen of the marketing foundations, you know, very marketing thing. But when I started to survey my clients, a lot of them said that I gave them structure and order you know, I was focusing my communication into something that didn't resonate with them. The moment I started using things that would resonate with them, that automatically set me out of other people doing the same thing and put me in the right place for the people who are looking for order and structure in the marketing, which as a result, makes the market less cumbersome and less overwhelming. So when you don't have an answer to your question, go to your clients. Your clients have answer to every question you have.

H: And you actually even have a way of getting into the minds of the ideal client for someone who doesn't have clients yet, or for someone who is rebranding, pivoting, or beginning to move into a new target market. Obviously, if you already have clients and you've created success with those clients, and you would love to have more clients like them, you talk to them, right? And you have a very structured approach for doing these marketing interviews with existing clients that elicits the exact information you need. But even if you are moving into a new market, say you haven't worked with any of your new ideal clients, you even have a way of getting that information out. So what one of the things I think was really and is fun about working with you because we are continuing to work together, is that you have an answer for every excuse because you've heard them all. It's like we all have excuses about marketing, even people like me who actually enjoy marketing and then there's plenty of people who really don't like it, but I mean, it's absolutely necessary right?

And if you're gonna do it, I think like the marketing fundamentals are, everybody needs marketing. You need to market your business in a way that leverages your strengths and actually works with your personality. You need to stand out, otherwise you're just part of the noise and what's the point. And you need to speak to the specific people that you want to attract instead of thinking everybody needs you, they don't and they won't respond to you in the same way. Can we talk for a minute about boundaries because one of the things, I mean, I'm a person with lots of ideas, so I really benefit from working with someone like you who creates a lot of structure and who really focuses on deliverables, meaning, great that you're getting insight. Meaning, great that you feel that you're figuring things out, but we need to have something to show for it. And for that you need boundaries can we talk about that for a minute?

G: Well, the thing is, in marketing you have a lot of growth selling you a lot of shiny objects and things that in appearance, make your marketing easier or less cumbersome, or that will deliver your results. Like, you can lay on your hammock sipping pina colada as well, your bank account is, getting just thicker and thicker. But, what I think with boundaries in marketing is going back again to knowing what you can do and what you cannot do and respecting those boundaries for yourself. So what I would suggest is ask yourself, if your business was a person, how would you treat your business right? Would you put your business in in the last place of the things to do? Would you cancel for instance, I have a weekly appointment with my business to on my business, my ideas, the things I do.

But if I have a client or a potential new client or a party and it collides with my business day, the moment I drop my business to do that other thing that's nicer, if my business was a person, that person would feel like crap, so that's also boundary. A boundary is, okay, what is that I want to do with my business and how I am going to respect that, but it's also, and this is something you can talk for hours. When we don't put a boundary to what our clients ask from us or when we react to their emails or to their request, or when they ask for a discount, potential clients or, you know, when people start to change the scope of work. So you, and there you can write a master because that's something you do but boundaries is so important to get results and also to be then again, to be consistent.

H: It all works together, and I'm just reflecting on all of the clients that I have worked with and frankly, a lot of websites that I visited where many people are talking about overdelivering and delivering a beyond expectations. And I know that you make a distinction between these two things because you know, they say under promise and overdeliver, but this constant overdelivering, I think leads us to burnout. So can you share what your perspective is on delivering beyond expectations and why that's actually different from overdeliver?

G: Well, I think overdelivering has an underground that you're trying to compensate something. So if you're overdelivering without the client, ask client asking for it or without an actual reason for it, then look, ask yourself truly, what is it you're trying to compensate? Do you feel, are you experiencing a lack of confidence because this is the first time you're doing this service, or you are putting this price out? So for instance, let's suppose you're applying a new price strategy right which means an increase. And it's the first time you have, you are in a discovery call and you get to the point where the client says, great, I love your solution, what next? What's the price or what's the investment?

And then you drop the price, which for you feels like this is so huge, right? And instead of remaining silent and allowing the client to take in the information and do whatever they do, calculations or just understanding, we jump ahead and do a discount or we immediately say you have payment installments or whatever. In that moment, the client hasn't even had the chance to react and you are already compensating, and that's not overdelivering, but it feels to you like, my client didn't expect this and I gave that to them. So that is an hour delivering that is not giving you anything and it's not benefiting the relationship.

But if, for instance, you promised the client to deliver a logo or strategy or an article or whatever you promise on Tuesday and you deliver it the day before, that's nice, makes everybody happy. But you didn't have to run or you didn't have to put extra people to do it, it has to fit into the normal operations of your business. The moment you start to go way beyond what are your natural capacities, then you are overdelivering in a way that's not healthy for your business.

H: And it's not sustainable either.

G: Not sustainable, no. It exhausts you and the other thing is you will start to spoil the client. So the client will see that as the most normal thing, and they won't see it as that they deserve it. So when I do over-deliver, but it's sometimes, or most of the times after we've been working together for some time, you know, and then I know my client will appreciate, my client will have a frame of reference to place this thing that's happening that's out of the normal or the usual. But if you start to over-deliver without your client doing anything to deserve it, then you run the risk of spoiling them and the day you can't over-deliver or the day you deliver in, what's your standard your client will see it as below the bar.

H: Well, it's like any relationship, right? Most of us, any relationship, romantic, friendship, neighbor whatever, new job we tend to put our best foot forward. We tend to make the biggest amount of effort. Why, you know, people say, I wanna make a good first impression. But be very careful when you are a business owner that making that good first impression is setting the standard of expectations that over time, and by the way, that they never asked you to do. You're not being compensated, right? It's doomed to fail and at some point you begin to resent the customer or client for having expectations of you that you yourself put in motion.

G: Yeah, not only that, but you know, we are human beings and things happen, life happens. So sometimes we are not up to delivering what we usually would. So if your client, if you have been sensible with your over-delivering, but now you need to cash in or ask your client to be sensible about the situation you couldn't handle it will be an easier to manage situation than if you're constantly over-delivering and then all of a sudden you can't even do the normal thing like, my computer crashed, I didn't have time, or whatever. Then they will say, since you have put the standard this high, they will think that at least you have five of the computers in your office, and if one crashes, you can go to the other one.

H: Another thing I know that we both agree on and have talked about extensively in our work together is the importance of having a business that is based on your values. Now, I do a values assessment at the beginning of my coaching engagements with each of my clients, and I think there's a lot of talk about values, especially for personal brands and small businesses and expert businesses but I'm not entirely sure that everyone sort of has the same understanding about how you actually build a business based on your values. We hear that we should do that, but what does that actually mean?

The interesting thing about values is that values don't change. They are part of you, it might happen that one value comes forward under certain circumstances more than others, but your values usually don't change. So, when you set up the branding of your business, values come into place. Values are part of the internal branding. Branding has two areas, the external, which is the graphic expression of our brand and the internal, which is our vision, mission, the things we believe in, our ideal client and our values. Values function as the compass in your business.

So suppose that your values are integrity and transparency when somebody approaches you with a business opportunity, you need to make sure that these people have the same values as you do cause embarking in a joint venture with somebody who doesn't similar or complimentary values to yours will cause problems when frictions arise and frictions always arise because we're people. So values, also for instance, when something happens like a client comes and complaints about your product or service or you know, they expect something you wouldn't do in a normal situation or a standard situation. Your values should guide you in making the decisions there, but it's also values also help you to stand out.

H: Can you give me an example like, not necessarily a case study, but like…

G: well, let's suppose that, one of my values is, which is not exactly value, but let's suppose I value tailormade work. I value the connection and somebody comes to me and offers me to grow my business a hundred percent in a short time. That means that at some point, I won't half the connection I price so much to do my work and that fits me because it's one of my values. So knowing that I can make decisions and then I can go and negotiate with them the growth of my business with their opportunity, but in ways that safeguards connection. Does that give you an idea?

H: Yeah and actually as you're saying this, I'm thinking the value is having that strategic partnership with your client, you're not just providing a service, you actually partner, I've experienced this, right? You actually partner, you become invested in the success of your client's business. You get involved with that and in order to do the deep work that allows you to have that intimate relationship and be able to customize what you do for that client. It filters through everything, right like your ideal client. Let's go back to marketing, that would mean in your positioning, in your messaging, in your marketing, you are speaking to clients who want a customized approach, who want that strategic partnership, who want to have somebody intimately involved with their business and helping them shape their marketing strategy. They're not going to buy an off-the-shelf course. They're not going to enroll in a huge coaching program with hundreds or thousands of other people on every call.

So it and because that's your value and that's your priority, and that's your marketing style that allows you to be consistent. That allows you to show up in an authentic way, that allows you to leverage your strengths, that allows you to respect your boundaries, that even allows you to deliver beyond expectations and it differentiates you from other people who work differently. So it's like all of these things really do work together. Why do you think, and honestly, I mean, I've spent a lot of money and a lot of time trying to learn about marketing, but it has been as a result of partnering with you over the last year, that all of those individual things like ideal client and you know, standing out and signature system, all of those things actually started to make sense because they weren't individual tasks, they were all integrated as part of a whole, and that's absolutely a differentiator because I think most people think they need tactics and then they collect tactics and then they have so many tactics they don't know what's working and what isn't. I bet you see that a lot with the people that decide to hire you, right?

G: Yes. The thing of having only tactics makes it very difficult to measure what's working and what's not because if you don't have a context where to place those tactics, and that's the strategy, how can you measure that tactic is working off or not? You know, because ideally, marketing is there to bridge, to help your business to go where it's today, to where you want it to go. So if you want, you have a goal of making so much money or becoming the go-to person for X, Y, Z, then marketing is there to help you attain that and then you back engineer. So you ask yourself, okay, if I want to make, I dunno, a hundred thousand dollars by the end of this year, okay, what do I need? Okay, I need more clients. I need more visibility. I need more authority, that's strategy.

The tactics are how you're going to get that visibility. How are you going to roll it out and how are you going to build your authority. When you know to which objective you are working that visibility and that authority then you can also decide what is your content. How are you going to talk about it? How are you going to show up? How are you going to stand out for and if it's not working, then you know where to course correct. Because the goal is telling you if you need to make a hundred K by the end of the year and it's April and you are in 10, you really get to get moving. So it gives you a context where to put your tactics otherwise you're just spitting off.

H: Yeah, and people talk about throwing spaghetti at the wall or spray and pray but when you have a system, every part of the system integrates with the other parts and works it. Do you think there's one part, and I'm not talking about the signature system right now, but I do wanna come back to that in a moment. Do you think there's one part of the marketing strategy, the various things that we've talked about, and we haven't even talked about SEO by the way, which also needs to be part of your marketing strategy. Do you think there's kind of one part that sort of, not that it's more important than the rest, but it's the part that you really need to get right so that all the other parts work better?

G: Yes, definitely. It's your ideal client.

H: Okay, tell me why because there's so many ideal client avatars, how to find out your and I really, I thought I was doing it well initially, but I realize it's different and it's more nuanced. Most people teach it, like what is the demographics, is the person, male or female, are they a millennial, gen Z, boomer? Are they employed or unemployed? Are they married or not married? Do they have kids? Do they have a dog or a cat? That sort of stuff doesn't really allow you to create any sort of marketing materials that differentiate you from the zillions of other people who are also following that same format. Let's talk about how you look at ideal client and how you teach your clients to really choose it well.

four coffees at Starbucks at: 10:00

Let's suppose you are a coach that helps women to lose, the thing is that losing weight like any other thing in our lives, that the reason why you want to lose weight is different for everybody who is in that situation. So if, for instance, I am a new mom who has just given birth to a baby and I am dealing with the baby fat. You cannot talk to me about going to the gym 20 times a week and live on celery and carrots, right? You need to talk to me about how I feel so you can say things like this person will describe her problem, like my marital life is suffering because whenever I look at myself in the mirror I just see a body I don't recognize. And all my clothing make me feel like a potato bag with lips. Then in your marketing message, you need to talk to that person hasn't said, I am fat and I need to lose weight. That person is telling you my marital life is hurting. I don't like what I see in the mirror so you need to talk to those pains and then you can talk about how you're going to address those pains.

In another case, you have a mom that's overweight, but she's the mom of a toddler, she might describe her situation like, whenever we go to attraction parts, I don't fit in those in those seats, and I end up making pictures and I am in none of my pictures. I am no part of my family memories where in this whole pitch has she said It's easier to walk around me than to jump over me. She hasn't said that, you know so she, you need to talk to that. You need to appeal to, you want to be part of your family memories, it's hurting, yada, yada. If to another example, you are going to your high class reunion and you want to go back to fit in that size ten dress and that people tells you time hasn't passed. You need to use a different language and that is where understanding and knowing your client varies from demographics and psychographics, you really need to understand how to talk to your client about their pain because don't forget, you have nice to have and you have must have, and your program or your solution needs to have, needs to be a must-have.

You know, you need to ask your client how urgent it is to solve this problem, do you want to solve it today or can you wait till next week? If they say, I can wait till next week, drop it because this client is not going to work, it's not going to show up to working with you. So that is where you need understanding your client defines everything in your marketing. It also defines where you're going to show up, where are you going to put your content? How are you going to talk about is it going to, for instance, if you have moms who are busy, you know that your content has to be bite size, because these women maybe have a lot of time if you put it together, but they have chunks of time throughout the day. So you have to make sure your content has to be by size for them so that they can consume it. Now, what would you do it? Would you do it a quick video? Would you do it, and then you do a video, and then do you do a short intro or you can you do a long intro? No, you do a short intro so knowing how it looks a day in the life of your person, and how do they really feel that defines everything in your marketing.

H: This feels so intuitive and almost like it should be common sense, but most people seem to find marketing very challenging, very confusing. I think a lot of people have a lot of resistance to it and what do you think the biggest mistakes that most small business owners, the people that you and I work with, what are the biggest mistakes or the most common mistakes that you see most people making because they do not really understand how to have a strategic approach to their marketing that takes into account the marketing perspective, the business owner perspective, and most importantly, the client's perspective. What do you see most people doing wrong?

G: What I see most people doing wrong is that because it worked for you, I am going to complicate it and it should work for me too so what works for you doesn't necessarily work for me. What I also see is a lot of the online programs out there give you tools, but then they don't explain you how to adapt that tool to your specific situation and that's where you are following an online course and especially those that are learning at your own pace, you know that you don't have a deadline. When you get to that point that you see the tool and you understand how that tool could change your business or could help you, but you don't know how to translate it to your specific situation, that's when you drop the course and you don't complete it. And I think entrepreneurs should in coaches or consultants that help them to adapt the tools to their specific situation. Early in this conversation you talked about how do I do when I don't have a client or, or I have clients and I need to find out my ideal profile.

So if you have clients, we do clients interviews, very targeted interviews, right? But if you don't have clients, what do we do? You still need your ideal client profile. You still need to understand how your client. So we do internet search or I find among my network people who could work for an interview or that we can, you know, I look out in my resources, but I don't give you just a template that you have to fill. It has to be something that makes sense for you. So that's where so many marketing things go wrong because you have all these gurus also selling you these things that you know, it's turnkey then you do it and you get results and that's not true because marketing has lots of moving parts. And the thing is, the other big mistake is when people don't wait long enough to see results. And when they don't see the results, they start to intervene and they change many things at the same time and then you don't know what was exactly causing the friction in your marketing.

So you need to change one thing at a time, and you need to start usually with everything that's related to your customer, your understanding of your customer, your ideal client profile, the information you buy about your customer, because there are so many things going on in the market. I remember having a friend of mine has a bakery here in the Netherland and she makes the most delicious muffin, and she uses top raw ingredients and she use very healthy, as healthy as the muffin can be but she puts nuts and all that stuff and she has her bakery next to a gym. So when people have been sweating, then they come to her bakery to grab a muffin and go and very close to the gym, another bakery opened with practically the same muffins. It's only that they sell them as keto muffin. So now everybody, because keto is so you know, it's a trend now.

Everybody grow this other bakery, and if you look at it, the client hasn't changed, it's the same client. The product hasn't changed, it's the same product. The priorities of your clients have changed so if you don't keep an eye close to the trends and you can see you can use social media to find trends, then changes are going to happen under your nose and you will feel like somebody's pulling the rug from under your feet. So you have, you know, you can set up your marketing, but it's not something set up and forget, you have to constantly monitor what are you doing? That's why you should have one ideal client, one product of service, and one message. Have that working, and when that is working and delivering new results, then you can expand but start with one, keep it simple.

H: And I can tell you that advice is so important because many entrepreneurs have brains like mine that are constantly churning out new ideas. And you really can't get very far if you're constantly changing your message or who it's directed to people get confused, and confused people don't buy. One of the other things I'd love for you to talk about is, and this is something I know that I've avoided is learning about who your ideal client, your potential client, perceives as an alternative to you or your services. You know, it's one of those things that we make all this effort to stand out. We make all this effort to differentiate ourselves. We make all this effort to be the just right, no-brainer, obvious choice to a specific group of people. And I can say, at least for me, well then who are my competitors? If I've really made myself the just right choice for this specific person, what are your thoughts about that? Because the truth is no matter how unique, special, individual, how well you actually stand out and distinguish yourself from others, your potential clients are actually evaluating you in comparison to other people.

G: Yeah, that's true. I think there are two types of competition that you need to assess in your marketing. One is the other people doing similar to you, and then you need to understand who they are. For instance, when I started, obviously I was completely actually lost, but I compared myself with Amy Porterfield and Marie Forleo because Marie does marketing foundations and Amy does this building, which is a very important, valuable or a good marketing tool if that works in line with your strengths, right? If you're right, or if you are somebody who likes following and controlling and checking, but nothing more far from the truth because I don't have the wallet they have, I don't have the connections they have. I don't want to do group online stuff, I want to work on a personal thing. So you need to know who your competitions are, who your competitors are in the human form if I can put it that way, and see what words they are using, now it is working. But the other thing you need to consider is who is your client using now to solve the problem?

So if, for instance, you're selling an accountancy most probably your client is using an accountant is using other accountancy software, but maybe they're using an Excel sheet. Knowing who they are using will help you to prepare the proposal and will help you to guide the discovery or the sales conversation because then you know against what you need to compare your product or service. So we tend to disregard what clients are using now, because if clients are looking for another solution they have disregarded the one they're using. But to know how to position yourself in their eyes, you need to know what they're using to solve their problem nowadays.

H: This totally makes sense in fact, I'm realizing I don't know that we've talked about in this specific way before, but the way you taught me to redo the screening questions in my free consultation that elicits that sort of information. Like what have you already tried basically to address this issue and I'm even thinking you know, if somebody's only done digital courses or they've only done large group coaching programs and they didn't get what they needed, they're probably much more of an ideal client for you and much more ready to work with someone like you because they already know the limitations of those one size fits all, cookie cutter solutions.

G: Yes, you still have to ask the question. So a question that you would ask is, what would an online course you have taken and not finished need for you to finish it. Because we tend to assume, we tend to fill in the gaps of things people are not saying and the things we are not asking so you really need to go deep into your discovery questions. It's not only what have you tried so far and why hasn't it or right the other way around. You know, what does that course of yours that costed you so much money, what does it need for you to finish it because an online person is not necessarily an ideal client for a one-on-one coaching relationship. They can not show up to the calls, they can be available when you're not available so there are many things you shouldn't assume. One thing you shouldn't do in marketing is assume you have to check, check, check.

H: And another thing is that you have to be realistic about establishing expectations and really being honest about your policy. There's a quote that you had shared with me that you read in Forbes, and I want to share it now, and I'm also going to link to it in the show notes because it's really foundational to who you are, to your values, to how you work, to the relationship that we've had over time. The way I like to is and this is the quote, honesty is not just the best policy, it should be your main policy. Can't deliver by a due date, call and let your buyers know. One of the field reps messed up on a bid, immediately have a tough conversation with your client. Lying to customers is like shooting yourself in the foot unquote and I will link to that. And I remember a time when this didn't have to be spelled out so directly but I think there's something about, you know, marketing on the internet and marketing on social media almost feels like people can say whatever they want. They can promise whatever they want, and if somebody calls 'em on it, they'll just ghost them, close their account, disappear. And I think for that reason, by this point in time, if you've been in business longer than two or three years, chances are you've had an experience where you have been lied to, you've been duped, you have not gotten what you paid for, and you didn't have any recourse. So I think it's honesty, integrity, and standing by your word is something that makes you, you Claudia, stand out.

G: But now that you mentioned it, it also ties very nicely with not over-delivering because if you are over-delivering and some of the things that you mentioned in the quote happen, like not being able to deliver on time or you messed up, you can't have that tough conversation because you have no ground to stand on.

H: Also true hey, I know it's time for us to wrap this up, but one of the things that you and I are both pretty obsessed with is the value of a signature system for not only making you stand out in all the ways we've been talking about, but also really organizing everything you do in your business around a common goal. Having a signature system helps define your discovery calls or free consultations, helps define your ideal client, helps define your content marketing and all of that. How would someone listening who knows about signature systems has asked themself, is this something I need? What would this do for my business? Is this the right time to start thinking about something like that? Is there a right time to develop a signature system. I mean, for example, would it be something that someone who's just starting a business wanna do? Or is it better positioned after you've been more established?

G: Before answering that question, let me tell you this, I think people get into marketing or in into entrepreneurship through different doors. So some have been having a sidekick while they were working, the sidekick grew and you left your job and you move into that. Other people got unemployed, they couldn't find a job, they decided to become entrepreneurs. Other people have been entrepreneur their whole lives, and some of the people were in corporate, got tired of the corporate and they are now moving to entrepreneurship to do the exact same thing. So what happens is you enter into entrepreneurship through different doors, which makes that you start with the marketing foundations in a different way.

So, that's one thing but what the signature system does, at least in the way that I did it with you in the way that I do it with my clients, is to confirm that you indeed have a process that you take your clients from A to B, that you can guarantee the results, you can guarantee the transformation, and you've been using it without noticing it because it becomes second nature to you. So that's the answer to can you be a starter? Do you need to be established? It depends how long have you been doing what you do. What Signature system does with you and then again, the way I do it with my clients, it helps you to see your business from the eyes of your costume true. So you see your business from the outside, but with the eyes of your customer, and that facilitates everything because now that you know how your customers look at what you do, that facilitates everything and that remove the sales feeling that we sometimes dislike. I feel so salesy. No, it doesn't because you're talking about something you believe.

H: No, I'm glad you set up your answer that way, because you're right, you may be a new business owner, but you come from an academic, nonprofit, corporate career where you have been using your framework, your process, your way of solving problems for as long as you've been in your previous career.

G: So now what we do is we get it out of your head and we first create a roadmap that you can use in sales conversations in your website, but also to explain other people what you do. And the beautiful thing of the roadmap is it explains what you do without you needing to be there. So that's very nice when you need to sell your service to, let's suppose you're talking with the manager and he has to go to his CEO. So your roadmap will do a lot of the sales work and will avoid misinterpretations but the interesting thing is that it tells what you do from the point of view of deliverables and transformation in that it's what people is looking for when they hire you as a coach to transform their business.

H: That may be one of the biggest things I've learned from you and I and it's obviously very related to my former career as a psychotherapist. I was focused way too much on the process and not focused enough on the deliverables. Sometimes the deliverable is a mindset shift. Sometimes the deliverable is a change in perspective. It may not be a physical, tangible thing, but it's a measurable thing and that that was a game changer. That was transformational for me because one of the main reasons why I stopped being a psychotherapist is that it didn't feel goal-oriented enough, and I couldn't necessarily see tangibly in a measurable way that the person was actually making progress. They felt they were making progress, but I needed to see that it was so, and I think the signature system is, that's one of the many wonderful things that are accomplished as a result of that. I mean, you wouldn't just decide, okay, I'm in LA and I need to get to New York. You wouldn't just walk out your front door and say, I'll figure it out. You need a way to get there to ensure that you'll get there.

G: But you also need to know where are you standing in your process. And a signature system helps you to know which steps you have taken so far and which steps you need to take to where you want to so it gives structure, but at the same time gives you the freedom to do it the way you want it.

H: You are right, that's definitely the sweet. No, but listen my friend, this is definitely the sweet spot. Because we need structure and we also need to feel that we have options. Because if it's too much structure, especially the creative folks, they feel too hemmed in and I think the way you teach it and the way we have worked together is that I need the structure desperately, as you know. But if it's too structured and I don't feel that I have freedom, and options to move, I will at some point start to resent it and start to resist using it. Yeah, and I think you really hit the sweet spot on that. Listen, you and I could talk all day, all night and into the next, especially about this, is there one last thing that you would like to say before we say goodbye for now?

G: Something you will be surprised, the thing is we like to talk about process because process is our secret sauce, you know, it's what we do to make a living, but process is numbing. So, but it has a place in the conversation with the client. It's only that you need to know when to talk about your process. You first need to talk about what you can do for your client and how you can change with, so that would be, that's where a signature system helps you. But the process you, of course you can talk about it, but later in the conversation at all times, your client present, and what they need and what they and what can change their lives.

H: Did you just say it's numbing? What do you mean like they're like, you're gonna put them into a trance, they're gonna fall asleep.

G: No, like you are talking, talking about process it people start rolling their eyes, like, ahhhh, and it's kind of, you lose the interest. It's like numbing the brain every time you start talking about process, the conversation dies if it's not, placed in the right moment where people can make use of the process or the process makes sense. So going back to the example of the problem island, solution island and the people trying to lose weight. If I know first let you know that I understand your pain, you know that your marital life is suffering, that nothing in your wardrobe fits you but I start talking about you have to go to the gym and only eat carrots and celery and water, that's the process. But if I haven't given you the context why this process is going to help you, then that's when the process becomes numbing and you lose interest and you are like, Ugh, I'm not going to the gym 20 times celery carrots, you must be kidding me. But if you paint the final result, if you paint the outcome, then the process makes sense and then you pay attention to the process.

H: Which is why those deliverables are so important. Such, such, such good stuff. Thank you so much for joining me, for sharing just a sliver of your incredible wisdom and expertise about marketing. It's so important, people say, oh, I just wanna do my thing, I really don't want to market my business. I got news folks, if you are self-employed, you're in marketing. You have to be, so you might as well get good at it and if you work with the right coach or consultant, it can even be fun so, yeah.

G: And the better you're marketing, the more time you will have to do what you love.

H: Woohoo.

G: Thank you for inviting me and, thank you for everything you have given to my business with your inquisitive questions, your restless mind. You have always kept me on my toes, so thank you very much.

H: I usually don't get complimented for that, so thank you. All right, that's all folks, it's a wrap. Thanks for joining us, and we'll be back next week with another no BS, straight talking solo.