Creative Sprint Days: One Entrepreneur's Solution for an ADHD-Friendly Business

G: It was maybe just a few years ago that I was struggling with some things. I was still so I started, a previous business before my current business, and I was just struggling with a few things in that business where I did decide to work with an ADHD coach. I had gone to Google, you know, ADHD symptoms many times and just knew that I had it. I'm not someone who feels the need to get a diagnosis necessarily or to treat it, but I knew I had it. I wanted to start the journey of working with it.

And so I did, I did work with a coach, and it was really interesting because I thought I was gonna work with the coach to fix what was wrong with me that was bothering other people. But it actually led to making some changes in some relationships and some, you know, some working relationships that actually just weren't working anymore. And it helped me realize that a lot of what I was doing was right, you know, and was working for me. But I wasn't necessarily acknowledging that enough to then really push it even further to work even better for me, if that makes sense.

H: That sounds a lot like me and then we start going, oh and we're used to being different. We're used to having to kind of run the instructions that other people just follow through our own algorithm so that we know how to do. And it's like, I'm kind of used to assuming people just don't get me. And that reflexive, if that makes any sense to me, is like the tip of the iceberg. Am I wrong about you, or does that fit?

G: No, that absolutely fits. And it's so funny because there's a new trend on LinkedIn about being weird on LinkedIn.

H: I love it.

G: And as you can imagine, I'm very obsessed with this. I absolutely love it. And it brought up a memory of being in kindergarten, and I was next to my friend on the bus who actually were still friends or were friends again. We were friend best friends at age four, and now we're good friends again. We both moved back to our hometown. But she was next to me, and she just looked over at me and she said, you're weird. And I had this, like, revelation inside of myself where I was like, that's it. That's it. I could never put my finger on it, but that's it. I'm weird and I took I felt it was this positive thing.

H: Oh, I love that.

G: Now I understand. I'm weird. But it is funny that part of ADHD that you probably understand the, you know, technical aspects of it, but that feeling of being somehow uniquely different from everyone, is real.

H: And what's interesting to me about your experience of it, Evan, is that in our culture, we may say we're an individualistic culture. And I think compared to many countries in the world, we are. But we like conformity far too much. It's what makes our corporations run. It's what makes public education run. It, frankly, is what makes churches and many other art large organizations run. We may say, we respect your right to be you but we want people to follow the fucking rules.

And when it comes to school, you gotta sit down, shut up, pay attention, raise your hand, don't, you know, bother other kids, and so forth. And so it's rare to hear someone at an early age say, oh, I'm different. I'm weird and I'm gonna I'm all in on that shit. Like, most of the time we think, oh, God anything that isn't, like, conformed to the norm, typical, stereotypical, means bad, wrong, less than, broken, inadequate, fucked up, defective, loser. Like, most people go there and have to kinda talk themselves off that ledge, but you went straight to weird is a good thing. That's fascinating to me.

G: You know, it was nice that it was coming from my best friend who was also weird.

H: I sometimes use the term ambitious outliers. And I also like misfits, weirdos, and other people who have trouble keeping all arms and legs inside the ride you know? Like, we think outside the box. We color outside the lines. We don't conform neatly to the norm. There's always something that just doesn't quite fit. But you took the fast track to accepting your difference early on, and I can only imagine how much less trauma you've experienced as a result of that.

G: Absolutely. You're absolutely right and it's funny, I sometimes think about the fact that I experienced more trauma in my career, my early career, than I did before. So we talked earlier, I think, before we started, we were chatting about when I first came into the advertising space.

H: Yes.

G: So that started my spark of ambition, but it also probably started the trauma that I experienced.

H: Okay. We have to dig into that, not too deep to retraumatize you. I am a former therapist, but I'm not your therapist and that's not what we're here for. But, you know, you had mentioned in our pre chat that you kind of found your way into advertising, and I shared with you that that was sort of the direction. I have a degree in communications that was the direction I thought I was going in. I got talked out of it by a so called guidance counselor.

And I do understand a lot of people in journalism, in broadcasting, in advertising, in all of kind of the glamour fields. There are a lot of folks with ADHD, but there's also a lot of narcissists and abusive behavior, all kinds. So let's talk about what you experienced there that both confirmed I'm on the right track and caused you pain.

G: Yeah. Well, it's so interesting that you mentioned, you know, that a lot of people in advertising and in that space have ADHD because that makes me realize I think there's an element of that industry that preys on that, that insane ambition and motivation and overworking that we can get into. So I went in there, and I was just like a machine. And I was looking at these guys around me who could go move soap. And I was a graphic designer, so it was really about a lot of technical stuff and, you know, being able to create all this incredible stuff…

H: Produce, produce, product right?

G: Really fast, really fast, day after day. You know, throw everything away and start again the next day. And, I loved that and it also caused me to, you know, burn out as you can imagine and I had kids during that time. So during a decade doing working in that way and having three kids in New York commuting, taking taxis home at three in the morning to Brooklyn. It was an amazing time in my life, and it was also really not good when I look back at the kind of lifestyle that I was leading.

H: And the pace and all that. I mean, I also have three kids, and I always worked at a frenetic pace. And I never really thought it was problematic because, of course, like you, I surrounded myself with other people who were also on the fast track. Now I would get feedback from others, like, there's just a whole lot going on here. Once I stepped out of the fast track lifestyle onto a different path, once I went to grad school and became a therapist, most therapists are much more chill than you and I and I just kept all those same behaviors. So it's like, will you just simmer down you know? Did you actually have to go through, like, an actual burnout to realize I need to get off this train or something less dramatic?

G: No. I guess it was less dramatic. It was sort of after I had the third kid. I mean, I went through more of an actual burnout maybe a couple years ago, but we can get to that. But in the advertising days, yeah, I really that sort of I think also when you're having kids, there's just, like, hormone. There's just, like, a lot of motivation somehow. There's so much energy to do so much.

H: Well, and a lot of bills with three kids. Let's be honest. I mean, in New York, not too much.

G: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So I was but after I had the third kid, it just sort of coincided. And I was at the same agency that whole time. And, again, like I said, it was amazing, and it was crazy and terrible and all the things all at once. I just knew it was time and I left and went off on my own after the third kid, the third maternity leave, the whole thing, and, never looked back. And I've been on my own ever since. But, you know, since then, there have been other subsequent, you know, pivots and burnouts and whatnot.

H: I think that's just our nature. In fact, one of the terms that I use, Evan, is continuous personal evolution. And I almost think about women with ADHD, the really driven ones, because not all of us are really driven. But those of us who are, I guess the term would be high functioning, is that we seem to get fixated on a path. Could be a business. It could be a career path. And we grow in it as much as we can until we've reached whatever level of mastery we desire. And then it starts to feel like I'm not really enjoying this as much as I used to, or it's not as satisfying, or I'm having more problems, or I've, like, tapped out.

G: Well, it was interesting because there were some factors. So for one thing, at that time, freelancing and advertising so as you can imagine, I wish this wasn't, you know, assumed, but I didn't get promoted enough. I didn't get enough raises in the nine whatever years I was there. So when I went to freelancing, still in the advertising space, that year, I think I made three times my salary from the previous year when I was...

H: That would make a believer out of you.

G: Yeah. So that was cool. So not really I think I had applied for one job, and I had gone through such a long process of interviewing, and then I ended up turning it down. And I thought, I don't wanna go through that again just to, again, turn it down. So I just went the freelancing route but, fortunately, it was just very lucrative at that time, so that worked really well. Though, led to tons of burnout because freelancer you know, I was double booking myself and do taking calls from the hallway at McCann or whatever and so, you know, that had its own issues.

H: But it's the lack of structure, the lack of systems, the lack of supports, the lack of accountability, all those things that I don't think most women with ADHD traits really appreciate how much they need them until they're not there anymore. Let's talk about that part of the journey.

G: Absolutely. When I think about myself in that period before I really embarked as an entrepreneur, but after I left the full time agency role. During this period, which was maybe five years, maybe five years, I was doing everything for everyone. If anyone came to me and said, do you do, you know, banner ads and I would say, yes, I do now! That once before do you do radio? You know, I would do anything, and I had no systems, and it was just me just grinding. That's all. And I still I met the deadlines. I got everything done, but there was no space to live a life, really.

H: Are you still married?

G: Yeah.

H: Wow, that's impressive.

G: Thank you.

H: I mean, I just think because I think it can be difficult to partner with a woman like us.

G: Yeah. Oh, very. Yeah, he was home with the kids. My husband was mostly stay at home dad with the kids. That was never a conversation. We weren't and he may have ADHD too. It doesn't matter if he has it or not. But, you know, we might be a double family or more than double. But he that was never a conversation or a plan. Like, oh, honey like, you stay home with the kids and I'll work, and we'll do plan this thing. It just wasn't, it just happened that way and so it was very hard.

He was really, really good at it, but it he also didn't really wanna be doing it. So it was hard times and lots of resentments and things that we've been through a lot. And he's working now in in the business with me, and I posted about it on LinkedIn just last week that he's come on board. And I said in the post that we could never have gotten here without the immense amount of personal work that we each have done on ourselves and together in couples therapy and all of it.

There you know, we had tried to work together in the past. He's a copywriter. He's in marketing as well. But it wasn't a good idea, you know, we didn't and now it's going great. It's actually it's kind of a new era, and, it's exciting. And we have we've made it through a lot as a couple for sure. I think it was very hard to be married to me, especially during those times.

H: I really appreciate you sharing this much depth and, vulnerability. It can be an uncomfortable subject because I think a lot of people see women like us and think, wow. I've even had someone say to me, you're having a lot more fun with ADHD than I am. And what I think they're referring to is that I think you're combined type, like me, which means you have the inattentiveness and the distractibility that are problematic, but you also have enough hyperactivity and impulsivity that you have a propensity to take action.

And it is through taking action that we move our game piece forward, that we make mistakes, that we get back up and try again and develop resilience and develop flexibility and confidence and our ability to do different things and trust ourselves. I understand the scrappy days of, the early business owner where people say, do you do this? And you're like, I do now, bitch, because I need the fucking money.

G: Yeah.

H: And I will do whatever it takes. And I think I see that more with women who have more developed impulsive and hyperactive traits. We just have this I call it the need for speed. We have a need to be busy. We have a need to be in momentum. We have a need to be productive. We have a need to create and to keep doing things. And, of course, when that's out of balance, as we often are, we are overwhelmed. We are overworked. We are exhausted. We are resentful. We're not getting enough sleep. Our self care is for shit, we're irritable as fuck, like, all the things. And then eventually, we burn out and sometimes some of us had to go through this a few times.

But to your credit, you've learned some things about yourself, you and your husband, and you've learned that, hey. You know what working together didn't work at this earlier stage, but all the things that we've been through between then and now have prepared us to do it successfully at this point. You have to develop resilience to be even willing to try again. Otherwise, you'd be like, no, that's a no. And most of us don't really circle back to try things again. We usually just keep trying new things. So I think you should feel very proud about that.

G: Thank you. Thanks, I appreciate that.

H: Now you have a marketing agency. And after your early career success, burnout, kids, freelancing, you decided the time has come for me to plant my claim, give it a name and build my own little empire around what I've learned about who I like to work with, how I like to work, and most importantly with me and my ADHD brain front and center. I have to I just I know everybody's got a different way of figuring this out and frankly, most of us don't. How did you do that?

G: Well, I think so I have a business model that is focused on facilitation. So we do creative work strategy, but also a lot of creative execution, websites, logos, copywriting, etcetera. We do a lot of brand work and, when we execute work, we actually do it in these collaborative sprint days. We call them leap days and so we meet we do a lot of preparation in advance. We come in the morning. We present work. We get feedback in real time. We address the feedback. We just go, go, go all day for one day, and that really moves the work forward. And we can get more into that. But the way I came up with this model really came out of an ADHD sort of frustration, irritability thing that I didn't realize at the time.

But looking back, because, you know, the thing you were talking about just before about, right, how we can say yes. Sure, yes, I can do banner ads. Yes. That yes thing that can come with so many problems, but it also the part of that that's vision, that we have vision where many other people don't and so they say, I don't know if I can do that. We can see I can see the whole project is done and tied up with a bow and delivered as if it could take four seconds.

And that can be very problematic for updating timelines, but we've built this model where we actually and it is a realistic timeline, and I have people to help me, you know, not say, you know, it can be done in five minutes. But we, I would get frustrated, right, with the amount of time it took, just all the conversations, all the back and forth, all the long drawn out projects, all the, you know, two and this was in the agency world and then in freelance. And when I first start when I was working with my own clients as well, sort of trying to take that model and do it the same way because it was what I knew.

Even when I started to try to condense timelines, I'd say, okay, I'm gonna do a five week brand package. And then I thought, I'm still bored, this still feels like we're dragging it out. It's like, hey, client like, let's you and me just get this done. I could take out my laptop. We could be meeting and talking about potentially working together. And there's a part of me that's going, we could have done this by now. I have my laptop right here. So it's that ADHD irritability of talking about plans versus getting down to it.

H: The impatience you know? And I think to your point, Evan, about the vision, not everybody with ADHD has this as one of their superpowers. You do and I do. When you connect with a like minded client and you are like, oh, I really like their business. I'm really excited about the work that they're doing. Your brain immediately goes to work on envisioning how it could be elevated, how it could be expanded, how it could just be so much better. And then you, like, fall madly in love with that vision, and you just wanna get to work.

Like so any back and forth, any meetings, any drawn out conversations, fucking email that goes on indefinitely, scheduling, rescheduling, and talk, talk, talking. You're like, I just want to make it happen. And then I'll show it to you, and you can either say, that's it, or, let me think on this. But all the in between stuff, it just feels so wildly inefficient once you've attached to that vision.

G: Exactly. Exactly. And so our model cuts out a ton of that. And it's repeatable, and it happens the same way every time, and it starts the same way with every client. And it lets me be in charge because I have a process. And so I can and in chaotic environments where, you know, the agency space or wherever, where I'm one of many stakeholders trying to sort of be happy and get their way, I get lost. I get overwhelmed and get lost. But in this model, you know, clients are coming into my world and we're getting out our laptops and getting the thing done, and they feel really taken care of. And I feel really satisfied because I'm leading and I'm not waiting.

Even things like when, you know, agencies, you know, ask the client, send us your photos, and then the client never sends the you know, and you're waiting. We just don't even do that. We just say, send us photos if you have any. If not, we're gonna find another solution. It's not gonna have photos or we're gonna put this in for now. You can change it out later. Anything like that, we're really addressing. So I guess that's how it's built for my ADHD brain because it just makes me very happy, but it also is really good, I think, for everybody involved.

H: You're eliminating all the obstacles and all the things that slow you down and hold you back. I always think the vision is this precious, priceless thing that needs to be captured quickly and completely because we, as creative people, we keep getting new inputs. And it's like, oh, no, I need to make this happen immediately, or it's gonna start to fizzle and fade, and I won't be able to remember it exactly as it was, or I might get distracted by other thoughts.

Or it's like, no, this needs to happen quickly. And, yes, I think it does serve the client. Are there client I mean, I can totally imagine clients like, yes, please? Who wants to fucking wait? Are there clients that this would not be a good fit for that you're like, nope, we're not working together because I think my process would traumatize you?

G: Very occasionally. Yeah. Yeah. If the client if someone says, I'm really a person who needs a lot of time to sit with something and…

H: Boring. You're like, I'm out.

G: Yeah. It might not be a fit. And then when there's a larger team and more layers of approvals that are needed, we are building in processes to handle that. It just needs extra sprint days, extra sessions where we can facilitate. It's all about the facilitation. We can have the core group, and then we can have a two hour thing where the board can come and they can weigh in. So we're working that in. But, typically, it really is best if we have three people on the client side tops, and at least one of them is this CEO or the founder or, you know, the decision maker.

H: And you learned that from your agency days, which is one of the things you didn't like and resented and always felt like you were on a different timetable than everybody else. It's all the different cooks in the kitchen. You're like, let's just only have the ones that are cooking with gas, and everybody else can taste this later. How many people on your team have ADHD, do you think?

G: That's a very good question. I think, we're a very small team. I could only guess, but I would guess, like, half, but thank goodness not all.

H: Are there certain roles that you find it's actually better for you to have someone who's more neurotypical and other roles where it actually works really well to have a neurospicy creative person like you?

G: Absolutely. For creatives, I think all neurospicy is fine. For project management and operations, neurotypical, I think, is highly important, keeping me in check. Like I said you know, like I was saying, if you don't have the photos, we're just not gonna have photos. And then, you know, I need someone who's gonna say, but, actually, we really do need the photos. So I'm gonna just keep following up with the client to get the photos you know? I need that so that's key.

H: How do you feel as a leader, and as the owner, as a CEO, as a creative visionary, that you actually need someone to manage you and mind you. I mean, the way you just said it so naturally, like, it's like no big deal. I find some people, they kinda struggle. It's like, I know, I know you know, I like, I know that I need someone to kind of be my emergency break, but I don't like it. You've accepted it. Was it hard for you to adjust to that, or did you always know this is never gonna work unless I have somebody who's kind of keeping me on task and on track.

G: Yeah. I haven't always known I needed it. I do like it. I do like it. The downside for me is then I might become overly reliant on it and start to go you know, and start to use ADHD as an excuse for just being crazy or not holding up. I might, like, lean into it too much. And then I remember that, oh, I can do this or that. I can manage the creatives. You know, at one point, I thought I do I get very fearful about managing too many people and having personal relationships with all of them and having to know about all of their problems and this and that. So there was just for example, there was a moment where I was feeling worried about that and then realized that it was fine, and I could use tools to do it in a way that works for me and, you know, sort of be a big girl about it, if you will.

H: Oh my goodness. You've been so kind and so generous and so vulnerable that I feel like it would be a tremendous missed opportunity if I just didn't lean into this a little bit. I'm often asked, especially if I'm doing any speaking or consulting, that what are the particular struggles of women with ADHD as leaders? And what you just articulated, Evan, is something that I have always felt to be a struggle, is that I know who I am. I know how I am. I know that many people find me inspiring, but other people find me incredibly annoying and obnoxious and just altogether way too much. And some people find it equal measure of both.

As a leader, I always have worried about putting my expectations of myself on others who are not wired the way I am to just go, go, go, do, do, do. And the fact that that's probably not fair, and they might think I'm a real ass, you know? When I don't mean to be, I'm just I just really love creating and making things that people love. And so because that's so much my nature, and I believe yours, I've been kind of, oh, I don't really wanna be responsible for people who may not be entirely that way because I'm worried that I'm gonna hurt them or offend them or abuse them without even realizing it because my nature is just so driven. And I wondered if you'd say just a little bit more about that because I think this is something that's that really, really resonates with women who are ambitious and need to have a team, but and need to be in control, but worry about the impact of how they are on others.

G: Yeah, I love this. I do, I worry, and I have started to find some solutions for this particular thing in my business. So with this very model that I've just described, right, the sprint model, I mean, I have a thick skin, and I love working this way. I also learned it in the advertising space. You're working with 10 people standing over your shoulder, and you learn to not care and not attach yourself to the work. So I have that experience, plus the ADHD, the hyperfocus, the wanting the irritability in patients wanting to do it fast.

Not every creative is going to feel that way. And with this sprint model, yeah, I try to be really upfront about what that's like. The nice thing is that we're not doing it every day. So in the advertising space, you're going hard like that every day. We only go hard like that on the client on these big client days. And, yes, also in our sessions where we prep and wrap up, you know, it's intensive. But there are also days where we're not with clients, and then and then it's a different story. But I've also started to do something that I'm pretty excited about where, you know, some designers aren't right for a sprint like that or wouldn't wanna do a sprint like that, but they're very, very talented.

And so we have been putting some things in place where we can work with a designer that we wanna work with, but they don't have to come to the sprint, actually so they can have time. We can build in time for them to do their thing leading up to that facilitated part. And then we have our people who are really the thick skinned, like, trained people, who are the sprint people, who are on the sprint doing the back and forth thing with the client and that's been working well.

H: I love this. I mean, because I'm thinking about so many creative people that I know who have a lot of rejection sensitivity issues. And to be in and also, let's be honest, a lot of neurodivergent people have trauma histories. And working in a sprint, which might, for you and I, feel like, yes, thank you. Get this done in a minimum amount of time and move on to the next thing for them would literally feel like they're being dragged behind a speeding car face down. So but not to have to miss out on otherwise talented people who may need I refer to it as, like, aerating the soil. They need more time to aerate the soil.

They need more time to percolate. They need more time to, like, brainstorm and float and all that, and then they sit down and get busy for you to be able to still find a way to work with them, but not require them to conform to your norm. I love everything about that because they're you know, even among neurodivergent people, even among women with ADHD, even among women creatives with ADHD, there's still all the different personality types, all the other variables, the trauma history and temperament and all that. It's like you can still collaborate with this team even though you don't like doing things our way.

We will accommodate you, and you can still make a contribution of your time and talent, which so what else is next for you? How else are you envisioning and reenvisioning your business? Because the moment things get too static and routine, you're gonna get bored. So I know you probably have at least three ideas for what you're gonna do next.

started their business after: 2008

And so, I'm very you know, I'm a person who finds opportunity in crisis, and I'm not worried, but I am thinking and I'm making moves. So one thing I'm obsessing about right now is business development as an offering. So we you know, I recently redid all my sales decks and my sales materials, and we came up with this amazing system for how to keep them organized. I mean, talk about ADHD, like, how to keep the decks. You know, you need all these we need all these different variations of our deck for different industries with different case studies in them, with different offerings in them, with and without pricing, all that kind of stuff. So we created this amazing system, and now I'm offering that as, you know, a package, you know, and I'm calling it spring clean your decks.

But the bigger idea there that I'm going to build out is this business development offering where we can help people. Maybe you don't need a rebrand and your website is fine, but are your sales materials just all over the place? Is your business development strategy all over the place, or is it do you have a repeatable sales process with seven touch points? All these kinds of things we can help people with. So that is where I'm going next to really focus on that offer.

H: I think your brain works very much like mine in that there may it may feel like there's a lot of internal chaos or disorganization or, like, ideas streaming in and out all over the place. But when you look at your client and their business, the strategy, the systems are perfectly clear. The road map just lays itself out like a red freaking carpet in front of you. And you know exactly where you're headed and how to get them there. It's almost perverse. I've never been able to figure out from a neuroscience basis why it is. But so many of us, especially those who work in branding, marketing, advertising, any sort of visibility strategies on behalf of other people. It tends to be like, this is the ADHD skill set that makes us uniquely qualified for this kind of work and gets so much satisfaction from it you know? It's fun for us, and we're good at it and, yes, it's hard work.

G: Yeah. Yeah. It's so true. It's so true about that vision, that sort of I've been doing a you know, every once in a while, I'll just offer free one hour consultations for a month or so to people in my networks, and I've been doing a bunch of those lately and it's really amazing. I mean, people are by the end, people are so happy. They feel so like, they got so much out of it and it's true. It's like I can it's very big picture. I can just sort of as soon as we start talking and it's based in all the IP that I've developed around brand strategy and this framework. And so my brain can just start sort of putting things into their places and seeing where the gaps are, and I'm just able to, yeah, do a really big picture in just an hour of, like, these are the suggestions I have for you. These this is what's working and kinda send them the AI notes, and that's been really fun.

ion, going back to earlier in: 2024

G: I love that.

H: That may be delusional, but, basically, it's like, I'm I wanna get you the result that you want as quickly as possible. I will drive at your speed, but I prefer if you like to go fast.

G: Yes. Yes. I love that. No, that's such a great point about, yes, we are. We're implementing so many tactics to try to close faster. So over the, like, check-in email every week for twelve weeks, just over it.

H: I get why I you know, not everybody in the industry has ADHD, although many of them do. Why do you think so many of them still adhere to these really outdated and unnecessary conventions? Like, why aren't more people doing what you're doing?

G: Good question. I think it's scary. I think everyone has a certain career background or way that they learned something. I think most people will keep doing it the way they learned it.

H: Yeah, until it hurts enough.

G: But I do the opposite instead.